Tolerance Rant
I guess it’s fitting, after the comments about God’s anger, that I already had this second sermon by Mark Driscoll ready to post. (Just for the record, I do not agree with everything I’ve seen from Driscoll, but those things are over much smaller issues that are not as black and white. I admire his willingness to speak boldly about the truth of God’s Word.)
Let me clarify some things about “Godly anger”, even though I think Driscoll did a great job already.
Christians are certainly to be slow to anger, merciful and longsuffering, because God is.
Christians are to hate sin, because God does.
Christians are to be intolerant of false doctrine, false teachers and false religions, because God is.
Christians are to get angry when false teachers creep up in the church, leading many astray, because God is.
I am not promoting “an angry spirit”. I think it helps to clarify what kinds of things I’m saying that we should be angry about.
We should not walk around looking to be angry at everything. We should not get angry with our brothers and sisters when we disagree with them. That’s not what this is about!
I’m talking about a righteous, holy, God-fearing anger that refuses to bow to the idolatry of our day, just as God was furious about idolaters in the days of Jeremiah (remember that where this all started for me this week!)
I’m talking about a rightful anger at the tolerance of the church that is NOT of God…we’ve got pastors refusing to speak any truth that might offend someone, while the church building is full of cleavage offending every man in sight–AHHHHHGGGGGG!!!!!
Pastors that will not use the word “sinner” because it is too negative–you think that doesn’t make God just a little angry? You think we shouldn’t be just a little angry?
Pastors that sheepishly tip-toe around questions such as “do you think homosexuality is a sin”, when the answer to that question is as black and white as can be in the Bible–does anybody remember the wrath of God on the city of Sodom???!!! (By the way, this is happening everywhere in the church–a NEW kind of church that basically tolerates anything in the name of love! That’s not very loving in light of the eternal damnation awaiting those who do not heed the Word of the Lord!)
God was a lot more slow to anger with the sinner who admitted his sin, than he was with the ones professing Him but teaching a lie!
I will not back down from this position. I serve a jealous God…that’s just the way it is. He deserves to be jealous, because we are His creation. And I should be jealous for Him…not willing to see His church perverted.
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christian living | Word Warrior | 
February 26, 2008 12:28 pm
Again, a wonderful post. Because I believe it reflects the heart of God.
Let me make a bold statement here, based on Scripture: You either serve God, or Satan. It’s that simple.
God is loving, but God is also just. Most people want to sweep His justice under the rug.
Hi! I just came to your page through another blog and I just wanted to say that I really love your blog. I will be adding you to my faves! Have a blessed day!
I loved these posts on anger. The wonderful thing about computers is you can log on and realize that alot of people share your feeling, beliefs, and struggles. My husband and I have been dealing with this issue for some time. It is one on the reason we have left traditional church and are starting to meet with like-minded believers who what to worship in a family intergrated way.
We all recognize the sad state of most Christian churches today. It is horrible and I do not think this can be overstated. The churces of today are not what was outlined in Acts. We are on a downward spiral and it is scary and yes I am ANGRY!!!!! I hate those things which God hates and in numerous modern churches today greed, immodesty, materialism and humanism abound!!!
We are one family who has said enough!!!! Back to the simple way of where two or more are gathered. The Lord has been faithful to brining others into our lives who feel the same.
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!!!! Preach it! lol
It makes me positively ill when I hear things that so-called pastors are saying these days. And all of these churches that are teaching its members to just be positive, etc. makes me angry! By always being positive, these church members are thinking that they’re ok-that there’s no need for salvation. And nothing could be further from the truth! God’s Word says that those pastors, preachers, etc. that lead their congregations astray will really pay for it. These pastors are causing their church members to think everything’s allright, when in reality, they’re vile, wicked sinners that will spend eternity in hell unless they give their lives to Christ.
This is one of the reasons why it makes me so very angry when the church praises the lies of feminism!! Feminism was founded here in the West by God-hating socialists and communists(namely, Karl Marx). (I’m currently working on a post on the true history of feminism). Churches are hopping onto the bandwagon of a satanic philosophy. That just makes me sick and really saddens me! Because of the church jumping onto the feminist bandwagon, we’re causing God’s Word to be blasphemed. We’re telling the world that that Christianity stuff is just a bunch of nonsense, for God has no power to change anyone, because Christians are living just like the world. It really makes me sick. 1 John says that if we love the world and the things of the world, then we hate God. That’s the plain and simple truth.
Once again, outstanding post!
Keep up the great work!! The Lord is really using you to change lives.
I don’t have the time to watch the video at the moment, but will come back and do so shortly.
Many blessings,
Rebekah
Hendersons,
My family recently did the same thing. We are now richly blessed by our reformed baptist, family integrated church(www.christchurchofchattanooga.com). To God be the glory, great things He is doing!
Let me try to explain myself here. I did not say that anger is sin, nor did I say that WW is sinning when she is angry. I did state scripture, which is the Word of God, which does say that we are to put our anger away. The verse “Be ye angry, and sin not,” is like unto saying “Be ye tempted, and sin not.” Anger is not sin, and neither is temptation, but they both easily lead us to sin. God is warning us to stay away from that.
I looked up the words “anger” and “angry” in a word search through the Bible. I would say that more than ninety percent of the times mentioned, those words are used to tell us about God’s anger. For the rest of the time, scripture does tell about our own anger, and almost every time, it tells us to be careful with it and to put it away from us, I think, as we put off temptation from us. Check it out for yourselves. For example, Proverbs 22:24 says, “Make no friendship with an angry man, and with a furious man you shall not go.”
Neither am I saying not to be friends with WW or anyone who says that they love to be angry, because God is. I am only trying to point out that when God speaks to us about our own anger, He tells us to be very careful with it.
God is righteous and is just in His anger and wrath, He never sins and cannot sin, certainly. It is good to hate the things that God hates, and those things can make us angry—-but, God says in Ephesians 4:31, “Let all BITTERNESS, and wrath, and ANGER, and clamour, and evil speaking, be PUT AWAY FROM YOU, with all malice.”
Now, if there is a difference between bitterness and anger, as several here have said, tell me why you take the word “anger” out of the above verse Eph. 4:13?
You can’t ignore these scriptures.
I trust God in His anger, but not me in mine.
This subject of anger and “godly” anger is not a shallow subject. There sure is a lot to it!
And, WW, Kelly, I am not angry at you for your encouraging others to be angry:) I am just telling you my point of view. I hope you did not take my responses the wrong way. I do think you are doing such a great job reaching out to others on this blog, and with so much more to come! You are terrific!
Thanks for such an interesting site, etc.!
–Beata
I never took your position personally, Beata–always enjoy discussing matters with you (Beata and I attend the same church
Maybe, without digging into it, (because I certainly agree with you that Scripture warns us to be very careful with our anger), the kind of anger Scripture warns about is not exactly the same kind I’m talking about here(and that Mark Driscoll is talking about).
This is just my opinion here, but I’m thinking that maybe Ephesians relates to anger among our relationships and not anger of a more “divine” nature.
In other words, I have to be very careful with my brother or sister, and not to become angry over our differences, or any wrong done against me.
But the “other” anger is more of a jealous zeal that contends for the truth.
You’re right–we can’t ignore Scriptures. Which means we have to look at the other Scripture that does talk about anger.
You said Proverbs said to not make friends with an angry man. We’re not talking about being “an angry man”. We’re talking about being angry, like Jeremiah and the prophets were angry. They were flesh and blood men, and they were justified by God in their anger.
God instructed them (and I believe us) to warn an obstinate people of His fury.
I just think we’re discussing two different kinds of anger here.
Mark Driscoll is great and I am glad to see you posting his clips here—he also co-founded Acts 29 a wonderful church planting organization. Last month I had to opportunity to meet him and it was a blessing. He is a strong preacher who won’t compromise the Word and a strong leader who is reaching the lost around him.
Beata, I want to ask you respectfully, then how are we to respond/react to things that are so blatantley/grossly wrong?
There are so many examples I could use, and I am talking about things that go directly against the word-nature-desires of God. Are we just to idely sit back and say “the Lord will deal with them”
What if your sister was a Christian professing lesbian, who believes that God made her just like she is. That there is nothing wrong with her because God is Love.
Would you sit back with the position that God will deal with her? Or would you, with a deep love that sisters have between each other say STOP THIS!!!! That is not what scriptures say….you are wrong!! It is an anger derived from LOVE, if I didnt love her I probably wouldnt care what she does with herself.
The other anger is getting mad at someone because they saw you sitting in the parking lot and purposley pull into your spot before you. You are NOT to get out of the car like a raving maniach and yell profanities at them, or on a more personal note….in your heart speak curses against them.
What I find enteresting in this time is that it seems to be switched. People have no problem yelling at the person who just stole their parking spot…but when a fellow “christian” sister in Church bends over and all 5 of your sons see her g-string underware/as well as her hind end because she is waring low rise hip hugger jeans, and you cant tackfully pull her aside and say you know what, thats just gross and I am angry that you aloud my young sons to see your behind, please in the future consider what you ware on the basis of who you night offend. I would do that out of Love for her and my sons.
There is a difference!!!Love is the difference!! If we have no Love for others and for our Messiah then we care not what others do….unless of course they are taking our much wanted front row parking space at the grocery store
I dont meen to sound harsh although it may sound that way…I am just wondering how are we supposed to respond?? Sorry for any spelling errors…in a hurry.
Audrey
With Love
Audrey,
Thanks for asking. Vengeance is the Lord’s, but we are here in the flesh, sharing this earth with others, and raising our children in amongst it. God has given us this, to act and respond and not be like stones which do nothing. God tells us to go to our sister or brother who has offended us, and instruct them in love. I do not recall the scripture telling us to do it out of anger, or in anger. Of course, for the larger matters, such as grand theft or murder, correction would involve the church and local or federal government.
I do agree with capital punishment. (Are you surprised?) This is good because, in the cases of serial rape and serial murder, it protects others from being harmed from them. They would always be a threat to society, and no amount of time in prison would change that. The need to protect other potential victims would in these cases trump the need to protect the criminal.
WW pointed out that we may be talking of different kinds of anger. It may be so. I can say that if it is so, that the anger that has arrogance attached to it is definitely the wrong kind. Otherwise, I have also done a word search of the word “anger” and related words with definitions from the Hebrew, and could find very little difference between most of the uses of the words.
On another note, someone had said that I was accusing God of sinning, by saying that anger was sin. Whether it is or not, we cannot ever blame God for wrong. I know that God kills people. It is a sin for us to kill, apart from war or capital punishment. Here also, because killing is sin to us, defined that way by God, Himself, that does not make killing sinful when God does it! In a like manner, God can be angry, and we can, too, but He is always right in His anger. I think we are usually wrong, or will end up sinning because we are motivated by our anger.
I read the scripture about the Spirit of God coming on Saul and giving him a spirit of anger to influence his kingdom. This is the kind of anger that WW is talking about.
I think Mr. Driscoll takes the anger-acceptance thing too far. I only watched the first clip, but didn’t he say, “I yelled at you because I love you”? I think he did stir up the spirit of the wrong kind of anger in that clip, and he was proud of it. I know that WW has had the right idea from the start, but when I watched that clip, I was afraid that others might be persuaded to act on anger more often–the wrong kind of anger, and in the wrong ways.
–Beata
17Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19