Tolerance Taken Too Far?
She was with me at Wal-Mart last week, on an unseasonably warm day…the kind of day that seems to beckon that pent-up winter immodesty 
We passed a young girl in the produce department that was immodestly dressed. Not immodest by my standards, necessarily, but tight, thin, clinging short-shorts, a tight, low-cut spaghetti-strapped tank top which did not cover her bra straps–hopefully immodest by most Christian standards.
I saw Avi closely observing her. I knew what she was thinking, and I was pretty sure Avi would not keep silent, but I kept shopping and pretended not to notice.
Sure enough, as soon as we passed in front of the girl, Avalee, very innocently and matter-of-factly said, “Look at that girl…she’s immodest.”
My first thought was to snap at Avi’s social blunder. To scold her for being “rude”, and to instruct her not to say such things.
Now, I’m pressured to coax my daughter into being “tolerant” and “loving” and seemingly oblivious to what was once considered criminal activity.
Am I being too black and white here? Do I want to teach my children that it is never OK to call sin “sin”? Is it never OK to even verbalize it? I’m asking…not sure—I do not have the gift of mercy, so maybe there is something I’m not seeing.
It helps me to think in extremes when I’m trying to decide on a moral issue like this.
For example, if I passed by a man who was slapping his wife around, would I just smile, and tolerantly pass by?
Or if I saw someone stealing, would I be polite and loving, pretending not to notice?
In all cases, the real one and the two examples, someone is being offended. Actually, in the cases of the immodestly dressed girl, many more were being offended by her carelessness than in the examples.
Hmmmm….
Related posts:
Tags: modesty
modesty | Word Warrior | 
March 14, 2008 1:06 pm
Audio available soon!
Wow! I can tell that you are raisng your children quite well!
It was probably embarassing for you for your daughter to say that out loud, but what a great testament to the fact that you’re raising her in a way that is pleasing to the Lord, and is Biblical. What blessed assurance! 
If only more young children at that age knew that it was wrong to be immodest! The only thing that I would say is that maybe you would want to teach her that in a case such as that(when no one’s stealing, being abusive, etc.) to quietly wisper to you the fact that there’s someone immodest, instead of blurting it out loudly. I don’t know…..just an idea. 
Also, you’re quite right about being arrested for wearing such attire. Not all that long ago, a man walking around in public without a shirt on was arrested for being immodest. Now we have countless men on beaches, in their yards, etc. with no shirts on and we think nothing of it. How tragic! Even Christians don’t have a problem with this for the most part. Christian Modesty and the Public Undressing of America by Mr. Jeff Pollard, a book put out by Vision Forum, was truly eye-opening, and is an outstanding book that every single Christian should read!
Also, don’t you find it interesting that feminism is
*supposedly* pro-woman, and yet it wasn’t until radical, militant feminism arose in the ’60s that immodesty became rampantly widespread. By dressing like the girl in this post, they’re seen as objects, things, etc., and are anything but respected by men! And yet this came about as a direct result of feminism, a “pro-woman” philosophy!
Great post, and very thought-provoking!
Have a blessed and peaceful weekend,
Rebekah
P.S. I wanted to let you know that I posted an article on my blog today that was written by a feminist woman who grew up in the 70s and 80s. It’s truly an eye-opening article, that I’m sure you’d want to read(as well as those who visit your blog)!
!
What did you say to your daughter? How did that woman react?
Okay, my first instinct is to say “good for you” to your little girl for having the good sense to know the difference between modesty and immodesty.
On the other hand, I think of the gentleness with which Jesus handled the woman caught in adultery. And I know that if we have any hope at all of winning others to Christ, we have to express a compassionate spirit of love and not judgement. Instances of immodesty are not quite the same as instances of illegal activity. I’m sure you know that since you pointed out that extreme examples help you to sort things out. Because your daughter is only 4, I’m sure that if the young woman was offended it was more with you than with your little girl, since she obviously didn’t reach her standards of decency in a vacuum. That was the long answer. Short answer: As long as you teach your children to be compassionate as well as modest, it’ll be fine. I agree with you that it is possible to take tolerance too far, but it’s never possible to take love too far.
I should have added that I’m pretty sure the girl did not hear my daughter–Avi wasn’t that loud, and the girl seemed to be distracted
I’m just wondering about my reaction toward Avi…is “social pressure” ever acceptable?
What I mean is, there was a time when indecent exposure was a social taboo–to EVERYONE, not just a Christian. And that “pressure” helped to keep things in check. What happened to that?
I was just saying that I think it’s good to teach our kids to use a bit of discretion in these instances because, after all, we are ALL sinners saved by grace.
For the record, I agree with you that we, as a society, have become far too tolerant of immodesty and indecency. It’s has gotten completely out of hand and we need to train our children to be different. I was simply offering another perspective to consider. Balance and all that.
That sounds funny to me now seeing that I just went on a tirade about the state of the culture today on my own blog, LOL!
Oh, and to answer your question of what happened to societal pressure? Sadly, there is none. Our culture has very little shame left, and what there is, shameless people are actively trying to extinguish. It’s sad Kelly, I agree, but true.
My kids have said similar things in public, but thankfully it’s usually in regards to a woman on a magazine front. I that case, I don’t mind so much if others hear them.
However, if it’s in regard to an actual woman, I feel like our kids need to understand that it’s wrong to be dressed immodestly, but that not all people understand that. If they don’t have Christ in their hearts, why should we expect them to act like it?
And, while our society in general used to have different standards of modesty, the fact is that it’s not that way now. So I think most people in general don’t really “get” it about being modest.
The thing I wonder about is when Christian women dress immodestly? What are we supposed to do then? Our kids understand about the immodesty because we talk about it often in our house. (And we live in Arizona, where women do tend to dress immodestly in the heat!) But it’s hard when Christian moms of their friends are dressed scantily.
By the way, I don’t think I’ve ever commented on your blog before, but I enjoy reading it and the debates that come up on it.
Amy
Mrs. Crawford,
I agree! That pressure needs to be discovered and brought back again!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mattswife1990,
At times like that, I believe that it’s of huge importance that we speak the truth in love. We need to bring that Christian sister aside, and point out to them that their attire is wrong, that it’s not appropriate for a Christian to wear. We’re to point out(in love, and out of a desire to see repentance and a recommitting of that person’s life to God) to our fellow Christians areas in their life where they’re sinning. Not to be rude or prideful on our part, but to be Christ-like and helful to them. This is important, because every time a Christian lives in a way that is just like the world, God’s Word is blasphemed, and unbelievers begin to think that all “that Christianity stuff is just a bunch of nonsense, for all those ‘Christians’ live just like the world does.” This is a serious problem we have in our culture today-the lost want nothing to do with Christianity because all they see is a bunch of hypocrites. That’s why we, as Christians, simply cannot be tolerant when other Christians are in lifestyles of sin.
In Christ,
Rebekah
We teach our children to speak respectfully & politely. Period. Manners matter even if you are “right” about someone’s appearance.
It is disrespectful for a child to make a negative comment about someone’s personal appearance whether they be dressed immodestly, are overweight or have acne.
I have never commented before, but I enjoy reading here
I agree with Elizabeth. It’s hard to bite your tongue (and to train your children to watch what they say, I’m sure; I have a 11-month old, so I don’t know much about this yet) but I believe that situation is best used as a teaching experience.
In the next aisle or the car ride home, you say “I’m glad you understand the difference… and I’m glad you know that’s wrong and wouldn’t do that…but we are polite and don’t say things like that. That girl doesn’t seem to know or remember what modesty is: Let’s pray for her. God can teach her heart what’s right much better than we can.” Teach her to pray positively, instead of commenting negatively.
With societal norms changed (and changing), we can still rely on an all-powerful God to have an impact on young hearts and minds, more so than when we used to rely on social pressure.
I’m so glad their are people like you and your readers that care about how the society is.
Thank you for your insight…all of you. Thinking back on how I actually did respond, I do remember explaining the inappropriateness of speaking our thoughts out loud, even if they are accurate.
I guess it just spawned my thoughts…I am a huge advocate of courtesy and social graces. I’m just trying to figure out how our “courtesies” regarding sinful immodesty has affected our cultural acceptance?
Are we to blame at all, as individuals who make up a whole, for allowing immodesty to continue escalating? Where is the shame in a person’s nakedness? If shame is not expressed, how can its perception be real?
If no one says it out loud, what then? It’s OK for you to defraud my son/husband, but I must be courteous?
When is it more than just a choice of clothing I am forced to respect? If a woman is topless, do I have to be courteous?
Where’s the line between courtesy and the social obligation to uphold morality?
I was thinking about this a lot tonight… Resulting in: Romans 14. Specifically verses 12 and 13.
And an interesting commentary: http://christianity.about.com/od/faqhelpdesk/f/romans14issues.htm
Gave me some different ideas, hope it helps
I am very glad, that people can almost dress as they want today and that it is not considerd a crime anymore. Might freak out some people out, but, hey, who cares?
And the setting of context of so called immodesty next to slapping a wife is pretty interesting, but – a minority of pretty strange thinking people might disagree – not even close to be the same thing. Not commenting on this is certainly a total different issue.
And, anyway, the real ‘sin’ in this whole story is shopping at WalMart…
http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/walmart/
chefchilla,
Might I remind you (or enlighten you) the “comparison” I made between addressing an abusive man in public and addressing immodesty in public, is that once in history, the two scenarios had something in common–they were both illegal activity.
I was trying to make the point that at one time, reacting to an immodestly dressed woman was no different than our reacting to something we consider an outrage. Immodesty was once an outrage too.
And it still should be, shouldn’t it, Mrs. Crawford?
First off, I enjoyed this blog post immensely and I also enjoy your newsletter!
This, a quote from the “Ladies Against Feminism” blog, perfectly spells out what I and it sounds like many other women think in relation to your interesting quandry:
“There is no uniform for women in Scripture, and there is a lot of room for creativity and freedom within the commands to be modest, pure, and feminine. We cannot hold others to a man-made standard of dress. If we have personal convictions about clothing, they must be grounded in God’s Word, and WE MUST TREAT OTHERS WITH CHARITY AND GRACE. Not everyone has reached the same conclusions that we have, and we don’t shun women based upon outward appearances. Jesus dined with prostitutes, calling them to holiness, SO WE CAN SURELY REACH OUT TO OUR NEIGHBORS WITH CHARITY, EVEN IF WE DISAGREE WITH THEIR STANDARD OF DRESS! There’s no such thing as a “Christian Taliban” when it comes to modest dress. (If you want to study this topic from Scripture, start with the following verses: Deut. 22:5, I Tim. 2:9, I Pet. 3:3-4, Proverbs 31:21-22, Gen. 24:22, and Isaiah 61:10.) WEARING DRESSES AND BEING FEMININE CANNOT COVER A HAUGHTY SPIRIT AND A HOLIER-THAN-THOU ATTITUDE.”
In terms of worrying about our spouse, sons, etc being defrauded (and I’m married, with a son who’ll one day be a teenager so believe me, I think about this!), THIS IS NOT A MODERN DAY ISSUE. What of the women in Jane Austen’s day for example who had their breasts hanging out of their long dresses? Yes they wore dresses but really, I don’t really see why they even bothered so hard covering up their ankles when other parts of them were out for all to see. But yet, we would say they dressed so modestly…
There is NOTHING new under the sun and we need to keep that in constant remembrance as believers or else we constantly shun the culture and are repulsed by the behavior of unbelievers, forgetting we’d be there ourselves were it not for God’s amazing grace and kindness towards us! And we can not constantly wish for the days of old either…this is where our world is at today and for better or for worse, we need to have a desire to make a difference in what is TODAY not what was the pioneer era or whatever.
susannarose,
Yes, I agree with you here. That quote (probably written by my dear friend) is right on target with what our attitude should be…I think I just have a particularly hard time with this one, because immodesty is one of the few “evils” against men, particularly, that no one seems willing to address. I just wonder why? Especially with the rate of pornography addicted-men, affairs going on in the church, and men desperately struggling (most silently) with the issue of sexual sin.
I agree in part that this is not a new issue. But I would venture to say that it is much worse than it has ever been, in terms of actual level of nudity allowed to be pubically displayed.
The thing I’m questioning then is, what happened to the general “pressure” that once kept the public mutally respectful of each other? I’m not even talking Christian vs. non…just a basic understanding that it is not OK to leave the house half-dressed?
Believe me, I’m not longing for a return to olden days…just a return to some basic morals of conduct and dress (not a “dress code”…but common sense and mutual courtesy). And as we watch those morals continue spiraling downward at an alarming rate, I am forced to ask the question…”why, how, and what now?”
I guess regardless of the answers, we are called to treat ALL with respect, even those who have disrespected us. Maybe we should start by protesting the pornography in the check out stand?
Y’all have been great in this discussion!
Whether it’s “OK” to say something or not, my perspective would be that I don’t think it would have HELPED to say anything.
If she were not a Christian, all you’ve just done is offended her and she’ll walk away thinking you’re mean. And if she IS a Christian, she has either not been convicted on this issue YET and you may hurt God’s work in her life with your words.
Just my opinion, which of course has been wrong PLENTY in the past. I just know that even if I were in Church and an older woman took me aside to discuss how I was dressed, I wouldn’t take it well.
Actually, I don’t think you’d ever see me come back to church again. I have enough problems and deal with ENOUGH stuff six days a week. Why should I go to church and be criticized there as well?? Just saying.
General words in a sermon about modest dress, or a testimony about how God is convicting YOU on this issue will do far more to bring others to consider their ways.
Mrs. C.,
I don’t believe at all that if a woman at church came over to you(not you in particular, but just you in general
) to point out lovingly that what you’re wearing isn’t Biblical, that she’s critisizing you! It may feel that way at first, but she would be doing(most would anyway) so out of love and concern for you. Church isn’t a place to always feel comfortable, or to have our ears tickled(I’m not saying at all that you implied this!). It’s a place where we should feel welcomed, but we should be convicted, edified, etc. there. That’s what church is really for-to help us come closer to God and His Word.
Blessings through Christ,
Rebekah
I understand what you’re trying to say, Rebekah, and I’m hardly one to be soft on immorality, or to attend church to hear sappy sentiment. I’m just saying more that it isn’t some old lady’s business to be cornering me at church and telling me how to dress. You’d best believe I’d have a thing or two to say about it if she did.
I’ve dealt with too many legalists to let something like that go. You know, people who will “pray for conviction” for you about whatever and they think that if you’re not convicted about it JUST AS THEY ARE that you somehow aren’t spiritual like them.
Now, a friend who I know loves me would be able to talk to me about something like that and I’d be hurt but I’d listen. Or if I were a MEMBER of a church, I would listen to the leadership or pastor if it were done in a loving way.
I just want to say that maybe some of the people who commented here are right, that as Christians maybe we are being too judgemental (maybe not the best word) maybe not showing enough grace or whatever.
But man oh man, its kinda difficult to stand by (for me anyway) and not say anything when this girl in her mid 20s is walking around our church dressed very provactively (tight jeans that show every corner of her bum, if ya know what I mean) and low cut shirt that shows clevage. Its not appropriate in church and infront of kids, and my own son and husband. I hate it. But, I sit quietly and I dont say a word. But it IS hard. I really dont like it. It distracts me at church too. Im positive she distracts others because whenever she gets up to go somewhere out of her seat in church, all eyes follow her. I feel like something maybe should be said because she is causing us to sin. Some of us are loking at her with lust and desire.(not me!I find it gross for a lady to dress like that, just my opinion! Im just saying I am sure some people are turned on by her though!)
Im just putting that out here, that ya know, its just hard to sit by and be “gracious” as not to offend her or turn her off from church. But, its turning ME off from church to see her there too (dont get me wrong..Im NOT saying I would leave Church because of someone else. Im just saying that its generally a turn off naturally)
So I dont know. Im not convinced we are being “wise” or doing the “christian thing” in this particular case by sitting there and allowing this girl to prance around chuch infront of all the men, kids and other ladies.
Not that I would ever want anyone to hurt her feelings or anything. But, I mean, just allowing her to dress that way is I dont know, just questionable to me.
A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards. Proverbs 29:11
Sometimes we must hold our tongues and NOT speak–even about sin. Imagine walking by the foodcourt at the mall and making comments about gluttony or reprimanding a professr for his pride in his learning.
Remember that mercy triumphs over judgement!
“Let your speech [be] alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.” Col 4:6
I think it is wrong to teach a child what is right and then berate that child for saying something when she notices something that goes against what you have taught her is right. Children are observant, and children will talk about what they observe. They rarely mean any rudeness by it, they are small and are blurting out an observation about something that goes against what they have been taught is right. Even if what the woman was wearing wasn’t wrong, you have taught your daughter that it is for your family and therefore you ought to be pleased that she noticed. People wear their feelings on their sleeves too much and we don’t need to jump on our kids for talking about them…they are copying what we do…we talk about others…we just do so behind their backs. Kids don’t worry about that. People also need to learn not to wear their feelings on their sleeve.
I believe it’s wrong to talk about people behind their backs… so I, personally, wouldn’t endorse comments like that by my child, based on my sin or inability to control MYSELF. Once again, this is a teaching experience…a reiteration of family rules and social mores. Just because they don’t intend rudeness doesn’t excuse our not TEACHING them that it IS. Like Kelly says in her next post, there are non-confrontational ways to steer norms — so take the high, difficult road, not the easy valley road of reacting emotionally/spouting off.
I teach my children that it is never ok to comment negatively about someone’s appearance, but we can talk about it privately (i.e. why does that man only have one hand). I would have reminded my little one of that rule and then said, You and I know what the Bible teaches about how to dress, but that girl might not know better. We should just pray for her. I don’t know if I am right or wrong, but that is what I would do.
i do agree, it is a good discussion.
i think children will quite ‘naturally’ notice something out of line or improper, regarding most things.
my children sometimes comment on dress, looks, or appearance of people. i have 4 daughters so they take notice to women. when i was younger, i would sometimes say, ‘that is inappropriate’, and they quickly caught on, asking if such-and-such were “inappropriate”.
since then, I have changed my stance. i never point out ‘inappropriate dress’, because (1) i pick my battles and (2)children are intuitive and figure much out on their own, and (3) commenting on the outer man characterisitically is futile and foolish, IMO. all it does is cause children to judge others. blame others. fault others. IMO, that is not the MAIN point. people will be held accountable; for what for each individual person-heck if i know! ill let the job to God….to confusing! i also understand the bible to say it is only when we are AWARE of something being wrong..that it is accounted toward us. Jesus cited the Pharisees in saying to them that becasue they admitted they could ‘see’, they had no cloak for their sin. some cant SEE.
i also like my kids to focus on INTIMACY. if you havent bothered becoming INTIMATE with someone as a “SISTER” i personally believe one should not speak about clothing. people dont care what you know, til they know you care. modest dress or immodest dress is hard to decipher. there are ‘broader’ allowed boundaries. suppose one woman is wearing snug jeans and a sweater, but covered. to some, its fine, to some its immodest. then there is another gal wearing soemthing with her breasts spilling out and her upper thigh showing. to some, one is wrong and one is ok, to some BOTH are ok for dress, and to some, NEITHER is ok. now, lets take drugs. cocaine verses marijuana. easier to decipher, IMO….both are wrong……and both are illegal.
it is SAD and unfortunate that society is what it is, but the way I read the bible, get ready, casue its only gonna get worse and when it gets better we may find ourselves living amongst an Antichrist (or in heaven if you are pretrib…haha). it is what it is. its reality. its not right. but its the truth and reality of where the world sits today. i find that telling an unbeliever about their dress is out of line. a christian……if they ask. otherwise, no. i try and walk by grace in these instances. there are far more absolute rights and wrongs to fuss over. im not minimizing immodesty. like i said…….its wrong. but the modesty we speak of on this page today….is outward. it only means so much anyway. i used to dress awful back in the day. had anyone said a word i would have been crushed. maybe some think, “who cares……why should WE suffer at their hand?” …….Jesus is clear. we WILL suffer. lets remember what we do and say to others, we are doing to Christ himself. at least, that is my understanding. in my own time i dressed more modestly, but i lost myself. i became a robot. “No man, for any considerable period, can wear one face to himself, and another to the multitude, without finally getting bewildered as to which may be the true.” I went to an extreme, for me personally, and became legalistic…and judgmental. today, im sitting much better in my onw ‘skin’, and i believe im still honoring God within the boundaries. being an Enneagram Type 4 (google it……fun spiritual stuff!
)i love fashion, art, etc….so i love trends and styles. i dont think that is neither here nor there.
When it comes down to it, we cannot STOP or PREVENT anyone from dressing a certain way. God has given free will, and has allowed, for whatever reason, people to NOT pay in jail time for immodest dress. that is His call. so, Ill obey that. im not making excuses for dress……simply saying its been ‘allowed’ and we cant understand it.and we arent happy about it, but i do know we get enough grace for the moment and the day. that suits me. and i can live more at peace knowing *I* am not the end all for fighting immodesty. i can relax. and give up control. “God grant me the serenity to accept the things i CANNOT change, the courage to change the things i CAN, and the WISDOM to know the DIFFERENCE. that prayer has enlightened me in picking battles, many times over, and showed me when to let go, and when to focus on ME and what I can reasonably DO, and be held responsible for. clarifies things for me.
we as christinas arent ‘allowing’ anyone tog et away with dressing a certain way. we cant stop it. we dont have the power. maybe, we can influence one soul at a time….through developing intimate relationships. but we arent going to cancel out this sin, once and for all. i dont even think it can be regulated…..hmmm.
id like to share what I have learned about lust, pornography, and the like. immodesty does not CAUSE pornography or lust. lust is the the heart. if someone turns to pornography, often it is due to sexual abuse, being introduced to porn at an early age, being sexualized by parents, being emotioanlly neglected by parents, and trying to fill a void. porn and sex addicts normally mutually claim something going awry in childhood….normally being sexualized early on and then turning to sex, unhealthy relationships, drugs, or objectifying women to numb that void. my husband struggles with addiction and i belong to many groups.so i hear women and men talk…ive been to sex and love addicts meetings. simply viewing a woman not dressed properly doesnt ‘trigger’ addiction. more likely, they lust to keep the already-in-force addiction going. strangely, in my experience, women dress that way to CONTROL men, often becasue of their own insecurities derived from the way some male (or even their mother…) in their past treated them. it is a way, in my travels, that a woman can usurp a man. a woman would not desirte to usurp the male population if she were never harmed by their hand. something MEN could consider when they want to push off blame on women for dressing that way. porn addicts want ‘compassion’ and understanding.well, thenb, they shoudl be ready to also HAND OUT that same compassion, toward a woman who doesnt care for herself enough to dress in a healthy manner. sorry, but i have my pet peeves about how the ‘addictive’ population passes the buck, and i speak up about it. each person is 100% responsible for how they act out. the girl is 100% responsible for her attire when reasonably aware…..but that man is also 100% responsible to deal with his lust and internal issues. blaming women for mens problems…..ive grown real weary with that one. ive seen anbd continue to see many an oppressed woman, all in the name of God, and it is awful..just heartbreaking. addicts normally are very manipulative at blameshifting….and are quite happy when we enable them. agreeing with them that its not their fault if they lust over a scantily clad women isnt loving them. tell them the truth…its their LUST-their heart issue-and they need to OWN it..and stop focusing on women as their ‘real’ problem. I see so many women take on the weight of marriage problems on their shoulders, while the husband convinces the pastor, the elders, his friends, and even his wife that these terrible struggles he has ARENT the source of their OWN sinful heart. i become concerned when females are blamed or faulted in disproportionate amounts. there is unfairness in the world, but all of us are called to behave properly, regardless. it does make it harder..but Jesus already knows that…..and has supplied an outlet. we cause OURSELVES to sin. no one can make us. there is choice. at every turn. we all fail, obviously. but i think it is healthier to say WE are wrong when we sin, not point fingers, unless just for helping someone to understand…..but never for excusing. someone said these women cause our men to sin, and i believe that to be erroneous, per what James claims. also Jesus says nothing outside the cup defiles. it is our heart, internally that defiles, and conceives sin. not externals. externals are only the way OUR SIN MANIFESTS, if i understand properly. thats why there are a myriad of addictions….different mainfestations….heart condition often is the same…defiled.
whether we say what someone wears is lustful, or gross….either way we are sexualizing it. when we sexualize things, sometimes we can give them too much power over us. i try to be nonchalant in a way about what my girls wear because in the drawing of attention and making a big deal, i can mistakenly cross the line of sexualizing something they are innocent about…and then they feel ashamed for a crime not comitted. likewise, we can do this to other women, or we can let men off the hook for their lust issues. ive been around men who recovered from sex and love addictions, and they can see women dressed loosely today, and appreciate firstly that there is a SOUL behind those clothes, or lack thereof. there is hope. they have recovered enough to see differently, to see in healhty ways, and to overcome. it is perplexing to me to think we would walk up to women who wore something to church and would potentially humiliate them. yes, we may know we are not doing so out of anger or wrong motive,…but we also need to have wisdom to understand how it may be RECEIVED. only caring for our husbands or the boys is selfish…and one sided. its not selfish if we consider the female at question, too. but to consider JUST them is wrong. we also as wives IMO need to deal with our own losses and anger…over pornogrpahy and how it affects us……not pin it on some lady doing so subconciously or unconciously. we all have our blind spots. if we want to be allowed to have therm, and still be treated graciosuly, so she we treat others. again, this is just my opinion and rantings.
something i thus far havent really seen in any comments is that when we see a woman dressed a certain way, why dont we become concerned for HER? why dont we see the pain in HER heart, that makes her want to dress this way? why dont we have compassion on HER, for hurts she must have bore to result in her damaging her own soul and body this way? to think herself cheaply, or to need such control for acceptance, or to need too much too be too pretty. only someone lacking the unbderstanding of love would behave this way. yes we are evil, but when i talk to young girls they arent dressing like this to deliberately be evil..they are merely reacting to voids going on inside…..they need help, not to be criticized and judged. jesus spoke and helped people in a direct manner only when put on the spot. there were many itmes he never spoke about, that we take to the hilt today, and makew a source of our focus……diverting and forgetting the real point. God loves these people, and suffered for them. we need to take care when we will make it a huge deal to point out immodest dress…but this is simply my own opinion; i understand everyone has their own passionate stances.
Because beating your wife and dressing in a way you find inappropriate is the same thing.
No Anon, they’re definitely not the same.
Perfect thoughts, Mattswife. Tribe, I think you exhort holding one’s tongue a little TOO much; calling someone what they are, in this case simply “immodest”, is hardly a world-ending thing.
My thoughts however, Kelly, are that a balance is needed and I think you’re probably already aware of it. Knowing someone’s acting unwisely and ALWAYS pointing it out aren’t the same and I’m sure Avi’s already learning this from you as she’s getting older. What she said (apart from the “look at that girl” part) was more honest than rude and VERY true. Discretion is still needed, though, in general. It’s easy to have mixed feelings on this one: on the one hand, I’d have LOVED to hear a kid point out the simple immodesty of one of the bouncy-butt outfits worn by cheerleaders at my school. OTOH, a child can be surprisingly hurtful, sometimes more so than an older person, by their very nature of innocence and unassuming.
Great discussion, thanks for asking!