Saved BY Grace UNTO Works
The debate spurred by Dr. Baucham’s message concerned me a great deal. I see more and more misuse of the doctrine of grace, and the accusation of legalism, and such. We are a “church” terrified of discussing behavior, works or spiritual growth.
But we need not be! The Bible teaches that because of the precious gift of grace, Christians yearn to submit to the lordship of their Savior.
Do our works, or fruit, or behavior add to our salvation? Of course not! Does that mean we are to ignore the parts of Scripture that specifically teach us about those outward “ornaments”? Not at all.
We’re saved, therefore we love; we love, therefore we long to obey; we long to obey, therefore we find out what it is the Bible asks us to do. Simple.
“I am saved from sin…
not by works…
but unto works.”
“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” Eph. 2:10
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Uncategorized | Word Warrior | 
May 19, 2008 3:40 pm
Audio available soon!
I just posted a quick article about this a weeks or so ago…
http://dancingamonginfiniteloveyahwehs.blogspot.com/2008/05/legalism-and-living-pure-life.html
Part of being a Christian is not hiding your light under a bushel. Christianity is not just between me and God, but it is about how we live, how we love our neighbor. Salvation is from the Lord, but with that salvation comes commands. The last five commandments is all about how to walk out our faith!
We cannot separate works from faith.
“I am saved from sin…
not by works…
but unto works.”
I think where we differ is what works those are. I hear Voddie advocating the sort of works that can be measured on the outside. White-washed sepulcres can look like what Voddie was explaining, no prob. *shrugs*
Whereas the works advocated in the thrust of the NT are things that cannot always be outwardly measured, but that only come from the Spirit:
love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness…
These things have nothing nothing NOTHING nothing nothing to do with whether one is male or female. They also have nothing to do with whether one is a quiet or a chipper personality. They have nothing to do with whether one is married or single. But they are the crux of what living the Christian life is all about: THAT is what a mature Christian looks like (male or female).
The thing is, you can’t really market catalogs or wares promoting stuff like love, joy, and peace. And you certainly can’t produce it by something as easy as changing your wardrobe. But a modestly dressed woman (who keeps a reverent look on her face in accordance with what Dr. Voddie says is appropriate) is NOTHING to God.
Without love, it really doesn’t matter what you do or what you look like. This Christian thing is about walking in the Spirit, birthing the fruits of the Spirit. It’s just that it’s a lot easier to focus on dress length or facial countenance or speaking volume than it is to grow in gentleness and self-control.
Molly,
I think where we differ is that you are completely twisting Dr. Baucham’s message…
he NEVER said a woman had to have a quiet PERSONALITY; he never said a woman had to keep a reverent look on her face (???)
He was teaching about propriety and appropriateness, in a culture where we have adopted rude, self-exalting behavior.
Dr. Baucham very much believes that behavior is simply an outcome of the heart…it’s amazing that he must be defended among Christians for literally quoting Scripture!
And talking about “being reverent in behavior” does not negate being led by the Spirit and bearing those fruits.
You speak as if one must choose between something…I’m saying that the Bible teaches a totality.
The points you make about the heart, the spirit, the fruit–those things are a given! Those things encompass who we are as believers. But we can’t just throw out the rest of Scripture.
Of course nothing matters without love…who said that these teachings are to be implemented apart from love?
If you disagree with Dr. Baucham’s message, tell me what Scripture means by “teach the women (and men) to be reverent in their behavior”.
Well said! Thank you for doing so. I just pray more in the Church will come to understand that.
I fear that in the post-modern church too much dwelling on the elementary principles of the Bible have led many Christians to believe that is all there is to learn.
They focus on the milk of the Bible and then unfortunately are not able to stomach the meat!
When someone like Voddie attempts to go deeper these Christians cry out legalism!!! They have come to understand through wrong teaching that everthing begins and ends with grace and that taking it further than this is going to far.
Really they are making the Bible all about them. God saved me now I can enjoy being saved. They do not want to discuss inward changes that should, according to the Bible, eventually manifest themselves as outward changes.
Also there is a misconception that every time a Pastor preaches he must gear his sermon to the unbeliever or the babe in Christ, not so!!!
This sermon of Voddie’s is geared to the mature believer who seeks to turn every area of the their lives over to godly living and seeks to do EVERYTHING to the glory of god.
This sermon is geared to those who have understood and accpeted grace, come to a saving faith, been changed inwardly and are now moving on in maturity to change the outward appearance as well.
This my friends is not legalism it is Biblical Christianity!
I don’t mean to offend you dear sisters who find fault in this sermon but I must say that I think you are missing something big here. This message is for mature Christians and if Voddie and every other preacher started at the very basics of doctrine in every sermon we would all be sitting for eight hour sermons, or we would only cover the basics every Sunday without ever going deeper.
I fear it is the latter which is happening which in my humble opinion is the reason why some are put off by Voddie’s sermon.
I’m not sure how to communicate here, because I don’t seem to be able to without being sharply misunderstood. So I think I’ll stop trying for now. Long story short, if any of you ever leave this theological camp, know that God exists on the other side of it, too. It’s okay to ask questions, it’s okay to dig deeper. Jesus has open arms and His grace is big enough.
Galatians 5 was the passage I lived in when coming out of the Vision Forum-esque paradigm. I ate it, drank it, slept with it. Righteousness is found in Christ–when we are babes in Him, when we are growing in Him, and when we are mature in Him. He’s our righteouness, and whenever we look to external things to measure our righteousness, Galatians 5 says we have fallen from grace.
Warmly,
Molly
I think we could argue this until we are blue in the face and people will believe what they believe.
I will say a few of things though:
Paul particularly preached about outward things directly to the church. (and I think this is what Dr. V.B. was doing).
Ok. Brace yourself, I am fixing to be extremely bold!
Paul even went so far as to tell the church things like “adorn yourselves with modest apparel, etc, etc.. I Timothy 2:9
I Corinthians 11 talk about women & men’s hair length as symbols of submission!
Should we just erase those books of the Bible because they mention outward things? Should we blast the apostle Paul?
These are practical every day issues for the church. They are things that ARE measured by men. They ARE what men see. Yes, I think God tells us to DO certain things after we are saved because they are symbols of our own submission to God (think about the story of Abraham and Isaac and how God told him to sacrifice his own son). He had to lay his son on the altar. There are things we have to give up, get rid of, turn our backs on, etc, etc, etc. Lay our all on the alter.
James 2:18 & 20
“But someone will say
‘You have faith and I have works’ ‘Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works’.
John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commandments”
Just something to think about.
Molly,
It IS difficult to end this debate…and I think it’s beneficial for everyone to articulate their understanding–so I respond again
You said you “lived in Gal.5″…this is the problem I see. If Gal. 5 were the only book of the Bible, it would be understandable to take the position of “externals never matter”. But the whole counsel of Scripture tells us otherwise. (In Gal. 5, Paul was rebuking those who were thinking they could be saved by circumcision–we are not attaching anything to salvation here.)
You said,
“He’s our righteouness, and whenever we look to external things to measure our righteousness, Galatians 5 says we have fallen from grace.”
NO ONE HERE has even hinted that external things measure our righteousness. We all agree that Christ is our only hope for salvation!
But you can’t accuse people who are teaching plain Scripture about Chrisian living of “depending upon externals for their righteousness”.
You’re simply taking a sermon and accusing the author of saying something that was never said.
Paul said “teach the women to be reverent in behavior”.
Dr. Baucham said, “teach the women to be reverent in behavior”.
If you disagree with Baucham, you must disagree with Paul.
That same Voddie Baucham also says we are saved through faith alone. He’s not adding to Scripture anything that isn’t already there.
Hello. I read your blog almost daily, but with 4 (including a 4 mo. old and an 18 mo. old) I don’t have the time to leave comments. However, my husband and I have been listening to Dr. Baucham for a while now. We’ve heard him preach again and again that salvation is by grace through faith, not of works. We have also heard him preach sermons like this one, application of Christian living.
In regards to the grace vs. righteous living debate, I think Paul addresses this much better than I ever could.
“What then? Are we to sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.” Romans 6:15 – 18. (ESV)
Yes, Molly, our hearts must be changed through Christ. We can have outer obedience and have many inner issues about which God needs to deal with us. But that does not negate obedience.
I have 3 daughters. The oldest two are as different as night and day. Oldest is very reserved, quiet and happy to “serve” behind the scene (taking plates to the dishwasher, shushing babies to sleep, etc.). Second is very out-going. She is happiest entertaining people. We are trying to teach both to be reverent. Oldest needs to not be Martha, bitter in her heart over behind the scene service or demanding recognition for her service. Second needs to make sure she is not in people’s faces, demanding their attention, interrupting, etc. We can’t expect one to be a carbon copy of the other. They are a wonderful balance in our family. They are dear friends, even at 6 and 4. I believe that is how the body of Christ is. As God continues His sanctifying work, our places in His family balance with others so the Church body can more easily work as one. I think people hear messages like this one, don’t know how to apply it to their own lives, and try to make themselves into carbon copies of what they think another woman, who is “getting it right” looks like. That is where frustration and legalism can kick in. Instead, we are to ask God to be at work in our lives, asking for His forgiveness and help to be what He has asked us to be.
I am sorry to take up so much of you blog space, Kelly. Thank you for letting me leave my two cents. (O.K. I might have left a dollars worth! lol!)
Sara
Honestly?
I think some people have a chip on their shoulder whenever someone talks about behavior or works. I am definitely more of a “freedom in Christ” kind of person than probably most of the ladies who seem to read your blog–just as an example, I’m not in the skirts-or-dresses only camp, although I think they are far more feminine and appealing. So I kind of understand that chip.
But I have to say, I was as astonished as you, Kelly. I really didn’t get anything that smacked of legalism from him, or from your discussion. I kind of was left scratching my head as well. I really don’t see it.