College…A Waste of Time?
New subject. Frankly, I’m all “Palined out” 
I’ve been mulling over this societal farce for a long time–THE COLLEGE DEGREE.
Someone asked me, when I spoke at a homeschool meeting recently, “What about college? Will your children go?”
And before I could form a more tactful answer, I just said, “I hope not!”
As soon as you make a statement like that, the hearers assume you are against higher education. Quite the contrary. I’m am for REAL higher education…the kind that doesn’t cost a gazillion dollars and often affords the student little more than a piece of paper that says “I’m in”, and a beer gut.
I ran across this brilliant article that offers a look at the crisis and a possible solution. Got to admit…makes me wonder if we ever get off the hamster wheel long enough to ask, “Does this make any sense?”
Murray writes
“Our obsession with the BA has created a two-tiered entry to adulthood, anointing some for admission to the club and labeling the rest as second-best.”
Read the rest HERE.
Then COME BACK! And share your thoughts!
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Tags: college
college | Word Warrior | 
September 1, 2008 3:04 pm
My husband and I are very pro-non-college degree as well. I, a few years ago, took some night courses to advance my lack in math skills. It was very sad. The Profs as well as the other students ridiculed my conservative views and went as far as to point out how stupid they thought I was. There was no “tolerance” for my beliefs or convictions. I would not encourage any young adult to seek a degree. If wisdom is desired they need just ask. Seek a library, open a book, travel, search out a Godly mentor. If they must take a class here and there to help achieve a certain knowledge do it online. But be careful, even then it can be very warped.
I believe our country’s obsession with college degrees as the only path to success borders on insanity. I am not anti-college completely, but I am totally against the notion of packing up a 17 or 18-year old and sending them off to live with other 17 and 18-year olds in what is in essence liberal indoctrination center for 4or 5 years. If a degree is necessary for a specific career, I believe a young person should go to school nearby and commute from home to classes, and back again.
I would agree that there are a lot of downsides to college. However, we need christians in a the fields that require degrees. I want a christian Doctor, Optomitrist, and Dentist. If you discourage our kids from college how will we ever have christians in these professions. We need Christian lawyers. We need christians in the fields of science. Yes, college is not for everyone, but we also need to train our kids in what is right and wrong. If our boys can’t stand up to the problems that arise in college how will they handle the life of working in the real world. There are many fields that you do not need a degree but many others you have to have one. I think this thinking can be a little discouraging to those wanting to go into those fields. I am curious what you think on that? What would you say to a son who might want to be a doctor? It is a noble profession and one that needs many more christians in it.
Oh. my. goodness! I found your blog from a Palin link. I thought I was the only one in the world that had a problem with the Palin nomination and your blog posts are a breath of fresh air… and now this!
Thank you so much for your eloquent posts on this subject! My own daughter, who graduated our homeschool in May, has been harassed, harangued, and belittled for her decision not to go to college. The people that agree with us are few and far between.
I love your blog and I will be a frequent visitor!!
Lynn,
Did you even read the article that I linked to? I don’t think you did, as it offered the beginning of a very real solution. Maybe you could read the article first?
I did read the article. I was not responding to the article but to your comment about hoping your kids do no not go to college. Yes, maybe in an ideal world the suggestions in the article may work for many fields. But, it is not that way now nor will be anytime in the near future. We need Drs and other professionals now. Do we just not go into those professions because you do not like how you get to be qualified, the degree? I understand the article. Personally it think it is unrealistic. The classes most people take to get their BA are totally different the the chemistry and biology classes you need for a solid background to even get into a medical school. How many of us are qualified to help our child understand college level analytical chemistry, much less have access to a mass spectrometer which would be required for the lab part of the course. Even if a large number of people wanted to change the system, it would not be changed in our generation. What do we do in the meantime? But again that is not what I was originally commenting on. I was wondering what you would suggest to a son who wanted to go into a field like medicine, now? I am not trying to be difficult. I read your blog often and usually agree with you. I am just trying to understand where you are coming from on this issue.
Lynn,
Thanks for clarifying…I agree, it will take some time to change things, althought I feel much more optimistic than thinking it will be another generation. I think we’re on the verge. I think many people (especially employers) are seeing the ineffectiveness of college (sometimes, not always.)
I agree with you. If my son wants to be a doctor, most likely it will be necessary for him to go to medical school. And I would be fine with that. I answered “I hope not”, which leaves room for “but they may need to”.
My point was, if there is any way around it, we would prefer that route. There are already many appreticeship programs for all kinds of fields, and “college on line” alternatives and such that we would consider before the traditional route.
So while I’m not totally anti-college, I am a huge fan of alternatives to higher learning.
And I can’t stand the stigma society gives to a non-degreed person. That’s probably my biggest gripe. The assumption that a person could only really be educated if he has a degree. Nonsense
Does that make any better sense?
Thanks for responding. I would agree that you can be very intelligent and not have a college degree. A college degree does not always make you any smarter. And many times it does more harm then good. In most fields this does not matter. I guess this issue hits home for us. My husband and I really see a need in the science and medical fields for more christian people. The science and medical fields are ones that most christian and homeschooled families do not even consider. We need good Drs and scientists, now. I know there are a lot of homeschooled boys that could go into these fields. They would be great at it. We really wish more would see the importance of it. Thank you again for responding to my comments.
I read the article. I don’t think that testing people to see if they really KNOW a subject is the complete answer to competence.
I recall spending 4 years of my life trying to pass the MSAT to become an elementary school teacher (I never passed the test). It was biased. If you failed ONE PART of the test, you had to redue the entire test. The testing fees were VERY COSTLY and EXPENSIVE! (after years of complaints, the test was changed so that you wouldn’t have to re-take the entire test if you passed certain parts) I knew individuals who could work well with children, knew effective classroom management skills, etc., but could not pass the MSAT. I knew of individuals who could pass the MSAT but didn’t know squat about teaching or how to interact with students. The test was required in order to be certified as a teacher. At that time in my life, I wanted to be a teacher, I was a substitute for those four years. I knew my job, and others knew I did. Yet, because I couldn’t pass the stupid MSAT test, I couldn’t get a job, regardless of my ample teaching experience. I couldn’t even get into a teaching internship program without a passing MSAT score, even though I had oodles of experience and training. What a waste of time!
Yes, BA’s can be a waste of time, but so can trying to be certificated. Test cost money. They are not free. True, it’s less than spending money on a degree, but if you’re a person that’s not good at taking tests, you can be spending quite a sum of money to try and pass. It’s agonizing and frustrating.
Also, I don’t think test measure everything. Just because someone can pass a test doesn’t necessarily mean that they can perform the task in a REAL LIFE setting. Some can while others can’t. It just depends on the individual.
I’m also not giving a lot of weight to BA degrees either. Unless your BA is in a top-notch field, or you are just extremely gifted, you’re not going to get the “cool career job.” You are going to end-up doing a job that is not even in the field that you practice, which is also a waste of time. I know. I have a BA in Social Work and it doesn’t do me jack-squat! I also hold an AA and AS degree, whoopie!
I think what is needed is a change in values and worth of people. Because of discrimination of all kinds and biased employers, there will never be a “clear cut” solution to the amount of knowledge a person should know to obtain a job. Just because you are certified in a field and pass ALL the tests doesn’t guarentee a job either. I think the entire job-getting process is about subtle dishonesty and trying to prove how “good you are” to a potential employer, regardless of WHAT degree or certificate you have. It’s all a “useless mind game” and until that “game” is changed, we will have to “play” to some extent, unfortunately.
So, while I understand your view point about being certified verses getting a degree to be valid, I still feel that there are some loop holes missing in this theory.
Kelly,
I just read my post. I’m sorry if I got a little “carried away.” I think the whole subject of college gets me crazy because I don’t think it is suited for everyone, yet it’s what is “required.” What a load of bunkum! I went to college and HATED EVERY MINUTE of it and I still lived a home while I was doing it!
Lady Sophia,
I lean heavily toward the advantages of apprenticeship, which is what I think the author mentioned as a prerequisite to the testing. I agree too, testing can be less than accurate.
But apprenticeship–a businessman who has spent 4 years under the careful study and working alongside another successful businessman is going to be far more prepared than one who just read the books.
This is refreshing to hear. Our own christian families put an enormous amount of value on college education. In fact, my husband and I are the only ones with just a BA. Everyone else has at least a Masters. And they think we’re stupid because we chose to have children instead of persuing higher degrees.
I hated every minute of college. I just wanted to get married (which I did halfway through) and have babies. I felt like I was wasting my time. Now, I have a BA in education that is not even worth the paper it’s on. My husband does not use his degree at all. And we’re about $50,000 in debt still for these educations. We were “threatened” by his parents that we had to finish school before we started a family…I was three months pregnant when I graduated. It was half out of spite because of the “threats”…lol.
Anyway, I still do believe in a college education for our children (I agree with Lynn). But I certainly will be supportive of them if they chose not to go on to seek a higher education. It is not the end all and be all.
My 15yr old, homeschooling son wants to be a curator of a national museum and must have a doctorate degree but we have been surprised at the classes required for a B.A. in Archaeology, his first stepping stone.
My son has been interning at a major museum for two years and will have 4 years experience before entering college, In addition, he has already been on two official digs but will have about eight done by graduation. All the courses required for his B.A. will be ones he has already done during high school while interning. Its sad since I have to pay for four years of courses just so he can have an official paper.
I think college is a choice! I love music and I plan on going to Samford or taking online coureses. I don’t know what my future holds but I believe it will benefit me to go to college!
GH
I am a girl, and that’s part of why I didn’t go to college. Also I couldn’t figure out what to major in when my interests were so diverse. Then there was the money issue. And the fact that I might get stuck with a professor whose worldview was unbiblical. All so that I could earn more money in a career I never intend to have. (Like money is the object of life!)
Instead of college, then, I visited my local library and the internet, used an antique book on writing skills to improve my composition, and interacted with the world experientially. Reading a biography that interested me, at my own pace, has taught me so much more about history than cramming for a test.
Certification is a good idea to an extent. I foresee one of the problems being the determination of a satisfactory score in various fields. Whoever oversees these exams can then artificially limit the supply of “qualified” employees.
Ideally employment and patronage would be based on familiarity with a person, not with their credentials.
Whenever I talk about this, I have to add that I’m all for college-educating doctors and nurses. = )
To God be all glory,
Lisa of Longbourn
I had to come back and re-read this post after an argument I got into with my mother last night. She said she doesn’t like my husband telling people that college is a waste of time. Of course I defended his position, which is the same as yours, and boy did she get mad. She along with the rest of my family believe that college is answer to “success”.
My mother pointed out how my husband “missed” so many opportunities because he doesn’t have a college degree. He is temporarily working in sales while we build our business. He had difficulty finding someone to hire him at first because he didn’t have that piece of paper. However, he did have a great company hire him at the beginning of this year because of his “real world” experience. He owned his first business at the age of 22 and ran it for 6 years before he closed it due to changes in the market.
We are currently working on building another business. And love the fact that I have only $4,000 in remaining debt from my college days (8 years ago). I was required to go. While many family members keep racking up that debt in pursuit of Masters degrees, all with the idea that they will make more money. And at first I am sure they will, but they will be starting life with their feet tied together with that debt hanging over their heads.
My parents are broke. Their fifth and final child is in college right now. While all their children had to take out loans, they also paid quite a chunk. My dad makes in the 6 figure salary range, but they have no money for retirement, their mortgage is maxed out, they have 2 car loans and now for the first time my mother is working just to make ends meet. Why? So their children can have a piece of paper to say we are “educated?”
I do not “use” my degree. I stay home and care for my children. My older sister also stays home with her baby. One of my brothers is in his fifth year of college, no graduation in sight because he can not determine a major (all he likes to do is write and play music on his guitar.) I have one brother using his business degree (although I am not sure he really needed it, he is being mentored by a stock broker and is learning the trade from him.) And last but not least the family baby, my little sister, is going to school to become…she doesn’t know, all she wants to do is get married and stay home.
I really want to ask my mother if it was worth all the hundreds of thousands of dollars. How, after her experience, can she possibly say it was all worth it? I just don’t understand. There are so many options out there. I don’t want to limit my children with a cookie cutter degree.
Oh boy did I ramble. My blood is still boiling after our conversation. I’m sure it will surface again. I pray that I will have the grace to avoid harsh words with her.
Wow… I find this discussion fascinaing…
I have just finished my degree, and have been working for one year. I had to do my degree, as it is vocational and a legal requirement (I am a primary teacher)…
I thoroughly enjoyed my University experience. I went to a church with a huge student ministry, and formed many strong, Christian friendships.
I am seriously considering returning to get my masters in international development, although I may do itover the internet….
I agree that college may not be the right thing for everyone (I am very ‘academic’ and enjoyed it immensley), but I do think that for some p[eople it holds a lot of value, and not just for specifically vocational qualifications, but also for specialist qualificatios in certain industries…
I’m a 17 year old high school senior, and everyone is asking me what I’m going to do for college. I seriously can’t stand that question. At all. When I tell people that I’m not “college-bound”, they just don’t understand why I don’t want a career. Its not that I’m against college, but for a girl who wants to be a wife and mom, they don’t need to go to college for that. Its a whole different story for guys. They are the ones who need to earn the money for the family…and that might require some college training. But for what I hope to do (Lord willing) training is the easy part. I’ve been learning about the wonderfully career of motherhood ever since I was old enough to remember. I’m the oldest child in my family…and I have 6 younger siblings. Being homeschooled is probably one of the best choices my mom could have made for us all. And I am so proud to say I’m a homeschooled senior
Being homeschooled showed me the career I wanted to pursue was exactly what my mom did… I got to watch her every day, and learn how she did things from cleaning, to cooking, to organizing, to teaching and disciplining… to me, my time at home is just training for the real thing…..which I seriously can’t wait for. Some peope don’t get it though… They don’t understand how I could live a successful life without a college education. I don’t know how to respond to the questions I get.
I love how God works in ways we never see coming. For the past 2 1/2 years I’ve been attempting to conform to my parents’ desire to see me get a degree and I finally put my foot down and expressed how pointless I find it all. There is no degree in the world that can encompass all I want to be as a wife and mother someday. The more I’ve experienced college, the more limiting I’ve realized it is. Why waste time and energy conforming to the categories the world defines?
Thank you for posting this article because I truly feel as though God answered and gave me the “go-ahead” to pursue what He wants for my future.
Thanks a bunch for taking the time to explain the terminlogy for the newcomers!