I Can’t Live Without My Head
“There can be no philosophy where fear of consequences is greater than love of truth.” – John Stuart Mill.
I keep trying to put the election issue aside, but simply cannot concede to the idea of “dropping it”. I cannot make apologies. I cannot tolerate rebukes of “that’s unloving, or judgemental, etc.”. As a friend of mine so simply stated: “A mama bear doesn’t sweetly negotiate with her cubs’ attackers.” I am a mama bear, staring, in the big picture, at a force that wants to destroy my children, my family and my nation. I’m not in the mood for tolerance.
It has been nothing short of disheartening, during this election, to watch conservative, “Bible-believing Christians” turn a blind eye to the very tenets of Scripture they have always held as the foundation of their beliefs.
“Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.
Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.” Ephesians 5:22-24
I’ve read all the arguments defending the notion of electing a woman to rule in civil office; I’ve read all the arguments that are supposed to “release” her from her biblical duties as keeper at home; I’ve read them all, and found them to be wanting.
I’m not going to rehash the former arguments, for they can be read elsewhere. But I see yet another discrepancy this issue calls us to consider.
Some Christians still, I pray, regard marriage as a physical picture of Christ and the church. Scripture makes it clear that marriage was to mirror this relationship, albeit, imperfectly. Christ is the head, the church is the body. The husband and wife are drawn in parallel to that picture. Without the head, the body can not survive. Do we really get that? The body goes where the head directs–they’re attached! The head leads the vision, the body carries it out.
God is the head of Christ; Christ is the head of every man; man is the head of his wife. Solid, biblical teaching. To retort otherwise is a complete denial of the authority of Scripture.
We’ve already fouled up the picture a great deal, and I fear we are about to completely destroy it.
Considering the specific commands regarding a wife to her husband, she must be subject to him in everything. And unlike, perhaps many other professions, the affairs of VP would most certainly preside before the affairs of her family. That fact makes it impossible for a woman serving as VP to be subject to her husband “in all things”. No, she is about to become the “body” to another “head”. How could it be commanded (by Divine protection) that a woman is not to rule over a man in her home, or in her church, but be permissible for her to rule over every man in the country? That reasoning is ludicrous!
I’ve already heard the suggestion that “maybe Palin’s husband wants her to be Vice President”. Doesn’t matter. He would still be abdicating his responsibility to be her “head”, and metaphorically, her savior (where it is impossible to separate the body from the head.)
And if you’re not comfortable with this, may I gently remind you that we don’t have the luxury of arranging the social order of God’s creation. He made us–He gets to define the terms. Anything outside of that hurts us.
As a Christian, would my vote for a female civil magistrate (not to mention the compromise I would have to take to support McCain), not be declaring the wisdom of God to be foolish, declaring reason to be stronger than faith? Am I not declaring that the church–the body of Christ, can live without its head?
God cares, more than ANYTHING, what we say, through our lives, about Him and about His Son…more than anything.
Added:
For an incredible sermon on every detail of the topic of women in civil government, click below…
http://www.sermonaudio.com/jumpto.asp?m=s&k=914081731428
Related posts:
marriage, political | Word Warrior | 
September 16, 2008 1:06 pm
Audio available soon!
Thank you so much for speaking on this!
I have spoken with several people about the “exciting” prospect of having a “capable” woman VP for the first time ever. Frankly, I don’t find it all that impressive. Not in a good way, at least.
A main point to which I feel I need to direct others is that she has a politically powerful position, which sets her outside of the Scripturally mandated position for a wife. Secondly, while I applaud her for choosing to be a mom, and opting to birth her youngest child rather than abort–I have to ask, “But who is actually training up these children?”
How can a God-fearing mother possibly feel as though she is doing right by her family if she chooses a career that removes her from them? I love my children and am with them all day–nearly every day–and still feel as though there is a vast measure of improvement possible.
At any rate, I appreciate your post as it adequately expresses what I feel about this “wonderful” political development.
Only a few days ago I posted about biblical choices not always being the popular choices. I’m with you, I am going to have to answer for my vote, and voting for either of the front runners is not going to make my Lord happy.
Kelly, let me first say that I have been reading your blog since you spoke in Colorado. I agree with so much of what you say. I can honestly say that reading your blog has helped me feel at ease, for the first time since I decided to homeschool my 2 youngest children. (our second year) Your words have inspired me!
I hope that I can continue to be blessed by your words. You have a gift.
Ok, so my first thought when I heard Palin was chosen was Yikes!! After reading about her, from both sides of the media, and listening to her, visiting many blogs including yours, my heart was still stirring, and I can’t quite describe the feeling, it is one that I have never had. I have felt strongly for both sides of this issue. I don’t think I have ever flip-flopped so much, usually I am firm in what I feel is right. I took all of this to the Lord in prayer. Over the past 2 weeks, I continued to be unsettled, and I was not sure if it was something that was good or bad. (can anyone relate?) I believe that last night while praying and reading the bible, I was given the answer. I have not been troubled by this since. I actually feel like the confusion has been lifted, and I can clearly see it… I am not going to reveal yet what it is, because I want to see if anyone else, after seeking the answer through prayer, can see it also. I haven’t yet heard it anywhere else….Please be in prayer, and ask God for clarity. He is faithful and good. Yes, I even prayed just now before posting this….
Anon,
Thanks so much for your comment and encouragement.
I continue to ask God for clarity in all things, but on this issue, I came to a “clear” understanding early on. I no longer feel any waivering and from every angle I see, it is plain to me that supporting NOT ONLY Palin, but McCain as well, would be violating my conscience because of the principles from Scripture that these candidates do not uphold.
I’m eager to hear your conclusion…
Anon,
I too am curious of your conclusion. I have been struggling with this same issue. I know and understand that God has called women to be keepers at home. This should be a no brainer for me.
But instead I am struggling. Why isn’t this conclusion easy? I have been praying for clarity also, and have spoken with my husband who is in favor of Palin/McCain. The more I pray, the more God has spoken to my heart to listen to my husband and follow his lead. So I guess I vote McCain/ Palin unless he has a change of heart.
I agree completely about what you have to say regarding headship. This is a very unpopular doctrine today and I think this issue will effectively separate those who read the Bible from those who follow the Bible. I think Christians have no one to blame but themselves for the state the Country is in, doesn’t the Bible say “If my people who are called by my name will turn from their sins *then* I will heal their land”? That is a loose paraphrase as I’m quoting it from memory. Unfortunately, people want to do something with more “oomph” than praying and repenting so they get politically active. There is no more powerful position than on one’s knees.
Paris
mom of 8
Like Rachel, my husband is also strongly in favor of McCain/Palin. I am really struggling on this, because I will follow his lead, but I am very uncomfortable with Palin as VP. I don’t know if I shouldn’t vote at all, or if I should vote for a 3rd party candidate that really has no chance of winning. I’m very conflicted on this whole issue.
I’m not voting for McCain…I’m voting aginst Obama. Every vote that McCain doesn’t get because of Christains upset about Palin not being at home or MCain not conservative enough is a vote for Obama.
I’m a stay at home mom surrendered to the call and will of my Lord Jesus. And I’m happy to be at home. I’m happy to be under my husbands leading and protecting.
However, I think it is so hypocritical to not vote because Palin isn’t at home. There is a greater evil than that. A greater threat to our nation…Obama as president. Let’s not forget that he claims to be a Christian as well. Yet when we look at his fruit…what do we see? There’s no way I would leave my children with him for even an hour! There’s no way that I can beleive that he’ll do anything Godly. That he’ll make any decision or surround himself with Godly people.
I’ll let the Lord deal with Sarah and her family just as the Lord deals with me and mine….but I’m not going to turn my back to the greater threat.
I will start off by saying that I don’t understand why Sarah Palin would want to give less of herself to her family for such a highpowered job. That was my first reaction when she was appointed, but after thinking about it and mulling it over…
Don’t forget that God is in control. Even if McCain/Palin win, there must be a reason for it. I don’t think we need to worry so much about our future. God already knows the outcome and if it means having Palin for VP, then so be it. His plan will unfold with or without her. No matter whether what she is doing is right or wrong in God’s eyes, SHE is the one who has to answer to Him. And maybe God has reasons for her being there.
We can definitely do our part, in who we choose to support, but ultimately God is in control. He doesn’t command us to judge our leaders, but He commands us to pray for them. Read 1 Timothy 2:1 and 2.
Also, in Romans 13:1, it says that the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Think about it. If Palin gets in, or even Obama for that matter, they are there because God has appointed them. I think it is beyond our understanding or reasoning how God uses fallen sinners for His purpose and glory.
You know… I’ve gone back and forth. And back and forth again on this issue. I think Nancy has verbalized my thoughts better than I could. Any voting decision, be it abstention or for a third party, is a vote FOR Obama. That’s the reality. So. Knowing what I know, can I knowingly allow Obama to become President? I think it would be different if one were ignorant of that possibility, and could vote purely, but that’s simply not the case. I know that by not voting for McCain, I’m casting my vote for Obama. That is simply not okay with me, and in fact is a literally terrifying thought. I am, however, in prayer about it so that I can allow the Lord guide my hand. But the thing I keep feeling over and over and over is, “Don’t let Obama be President.” Well, if I’m to obey THAT, that means voting for McCain as that’s the most effective means in which to keep Obama from office. Sigh. I promise that I’m not trying to be argumentative. I’m just using the space to kind of drag out what’s been floating in my mind.
Laura,
There is truth in what you say; nevertheless, McCain, Palin or Obama are not our leaders yet…we have an obligation, before God, to “speak” through our vote.
I think the blind spot in this matter is that we are too short-sighted; that causes us to be pragmatic (do whatever is necessary for the best outcome now.)
Our God is not short-sighted; he can and has used wicked leaders in all sorts of way in history; and often He *gave* His people wicked leaders to rule over them because they would not turn to Him. BUT, he still holds HIS people accoutable for their actions. (My vote may not keep Obama out of office; but if I vote or not vote based on holding fast to truth and principle, does God not see and act accordingly?)
I was reading in Isaiah today and it said that “they would be given what they asked for”.
My burden is that we would see beyond this next 4 years; Obama in office IS NOT THE WORST THING THAT CAN HAPPEN!
God’s wrath on His people is. We don’t have to have the answers. We don’t have to “fix” this election. We only have to cling to the truth, obey in the face of uncertainty, and God promises to restore us. Otherwise, it’s destruction.
We need the tenacity of the martyrs of the past!
Kelly,
This is an election weighing heavily on my heart. My parents are in town, and basically, told us, that if we vote third party, we’re throwing away a vote. My husband asked my father if he is comfortable voting where a woman could lead the country? My dad (a Christian) answered yes, she’s smart. I am blown away. He told me a couple of months ago that he hoped a woman (Hillary) would never hold the position.
Anon,
I think there’s a reason it weighs heavily on your heart…this election is a monumentally defining moment in our nation’s history; and I don’t think it has as much to do with Obama as it does with the “crucible” for believers. What do we really believe? Who do we really trust? It’s all about to be revealed.
And I’m afraid judgement is coming.
I’ve got another post ready for tomorrow, but here is a quote from it:
“If you think Obama is the biggest threat to our country right now, you have never met the wrath of God upon a nation who rebels against His Word, and follows the dictates of their own hearts rather than what He has ordered. He has spoken. We will obey and receive blessing, or we will disobey and evoke the judgement we deserve.”
I’m in agreement with Laura’s comment. Our Father in Heaven is totally in control over this issue.
In all honesty, I don’t understand why Christians are getting “worked-up” over this issue. God is the Lord of our lives, not man or women leaders of the world. As Christians, our hope should be focused on God’s Kingdom when God and Christ will be rulers instead of humans. If God has asked us as Christians to seek His Kingdom first, why are we placing so much importance over McCain or Obama?
It’s times like this when I wonder what Heavenly Father must be thinking as He is looking down from heaven – watching all these elections; looking at people “cheering” for their favorite candidate and down-playing their not-so-favorite candidate. I wonder what He is thinking. I wonder if He is pleased or displeased . . .
I am listening to an audio by the Botkin daughters. One of them just shared a quote by President Roosevelt in response to someone asking about why he doesn’t control his unruly daughter. He said, “I can be President of the United States, or I can control Alice. I cannot possibly do both.”
I enjoyed this post. I have only one question, and I would like to ask it in email.
This matter was quite “clear” to me from day 1..I am on the same page as you are. I was very shocked when so many women that I know of defended palin or made an excuse some way or another. I thought maybe I was going crazy and I actually tried to convince myself that it was o.k.?? Nope didn’t work..I stuck with my intial reaction and feel, for me , it is perfectly clear.
God’s Dancing Child…you can contact me through our website (there’s a link in the sidebar.)
And this is why Obama will be our next president. But, as our freedoms get taken away and the number of aborted unborn increases, I’ll know it wasn’t because of my vote. Small consolation, but consolation nonetheless. I don’t want innocent blood on my hands over a matter of principle. There are bigger things at stake, it’s true, but I think you’ve missed the point.
I love the imagery, the point you make that not only is a head a leader; it’s essential!
And the fact that we as individuals can’t set logic aside, and knowledge of the truth, but must act on what our head knows.
May God bless the elections, and put it in many people’s hearts to vote by faith.
Thanks for continuing to speak. Blogging this topic has become quite the adventure. I too am surprised.
To God be all glory,
Lisa of Longbourn
You know, I think the only thing worse than having a woman VP would be having a woman PRESIDENT. McCain is 72 years old and he HAS CANCER. There is a better than average change that he WILL NOT be able to complete his duties to our country should he be elected. That would mean that Palin would be president. The head of our country would BE A WOMAN. God has clearly set the order of our life, as Kelly has so clearly pointed out and while Obama is not the perfect choice, he, being a man, has the ability to lead. We need to trust in the LORD, not in our own desires. It is GOD’S PLAN not ours that should dictate what we do. We should not worry about throwing our vote away. We are giving it to God. We are giving HIM the power to choose be cause we are not choosing evil. We must follow the Lord’s plan. McCain, an aging, ill candidate chose a female as his running mate. This is like playing Russian roulette. Please, please consider that if you vote McCain for president, you could very well be voting PALIN for president. What does the BIBLE say about a country that follows a woman? Will not his wrath be great?
Pray and think on this matter.
God Bless
Mrs. Taft,
Unfortunately, this is another area where Christians are blind…McCain is not fully pro-life. There will continue to be thousands of abortions even under his leadership. He supports funding for Planned Parenthood,and he has no intention to try to overturn Roe vs. Wade, and just like every “pro-life” Rebulican before him, abortion will continue. In fact, Palin said she is in favor of allowing Planned Parenthood into schools to dispense birth control.
And we think God will be pleased if we choose this?
Those innocent lives will be on our hands just the same. Don’t be fooled.
That has been my point…the lesser of two evils is still evil in God’s sight. Why can’t we hold to truth (it IS the thing at stake here) and appease the Lord’s anger? He will give us over to whatever disaster He wants, because of our refusal to listen. Read Isaiah.
Some commentary on McCain’s “pro-life” stance:
“John McCain is not pro life,” said Keyes, who’s criticized McCain’s abortion position in the past. “Anyone who votes for John McCain betrays the pro-life proponents.”
“McCain has twice voted to override President Bill Clinton’s veto of a bill that would have ended partial birth abortions. He also voted in favor of a law that would have prevented family planning clinics that receive federal funding from counseling women on abortion.”
Taken from: http://www.euthanasia.com/abortion.html
McCain supports embryonic stem cell research:
“Clearly, John McCain supports it [ESCR],” he said, emphasizing that the ad is intended to refer to all forms of stem cell research, including experiments using human embryos and those using cells from adults.”
From: http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/mccain-launches-pro-stem-cells-ad-2008-09-12.html
Appease the Lord’s anger? That sounds like the ancient history that my children are studying this year where the people were always trying to appease the gods.
We are kind of like cafeteria Christians we take this scripture because we like it but that scripture we don’t want because it doesn’t fit our life or because it brings conviction to our life. So we have decided that the scripture that women are supposed to be seen and not heard is one that fits Mrs. Sarah Palin so we are riding it to death. Yes, it is true that the best place for her is in the home, but God can use women very powerfully and what if God is using Mrs. Sarah Palin to help get our country back where we need it to be. But, we have forgotten other verses in the Bible that says don’t wear gold or silver, a woman’s glory is her hair so it is to remain uncut, our bodies are the temples of God and therefore we should be careful what we put in it, and also the holes that we punch in it. The heathen and slaves were the ones who had their ears pierced, the woman was not to wear men’s clothing (ie. in America it is accepted that pants denotes men and dresses denote women.If you don’t believe that look at the signs on the bathroom next time you are in public) We need to be careful that we don’t just pick our favorites and forget other scriptures. I fully believe that when there is not a man to do the job then God can definitely use a woman. And no it doesn’t bother me to think that Mrs. Sarah Palin could become our next President. I feel confident that she could handle it rather well myself. She is a strong, well-thought woman. Again I agree with several that have posted–to not vote for McCain/Palin is to vote for Obama and we need to think long and hard what that will mean for America. More than likely we will not have an America as we know it today. That will definitely bring God’s wrath on America.
Anon,
Yes, appease the Lord’s anger (read Isaiah!)…we spend too much time concocting our own ideas and not enough listening to God’s Word.
I agree…we tend to be cafeteria Christians far too often…like in this case.
Actually, there is Scripture to support a woman of God wearing earrings, if you want to get technical, and to argue that she is allowed to cut her hair, just not shave it. But that’s a different topic.
Go study the body as a temple again…I agree we should desire to take care of it, but that specific verse refers to joining our bodies with harlots and has nothing to do with what we eat. Conversely, Scripture says “it’s not what goes into a man that defiles a man, but what comes out of a man that defiles a man”.
Agreed–let’s be specific and take all of Scripture.
And it is clear on women being forbidden to rule over men, and women managing the domain of home to keep it from falling apart–for everyone’s good, not for some “oppression” we impose.
And once again, prominent, Christian leaders have adamantly opposed McCain before Sarah Palin; despite how conservative she is, she has little power. I’m asking you to think about the principle of voting for lesser of two evils. Can God bless us for that?
As we consider our pro-life fight, consider this:
"The American female is free to be an idiot," says Nancy Levant, author of "The Cultural Devastation of American Women: The Strange and Frightening Decline of the American Female (and her dreadful timing)."
Having witnessed the emotional fallout children suffer when farmed off to caretakers, she says that too many homes are sterile because mothers have "lost their senses under the highly political guise of 'liberation.'"
Too many pro-life conservatives who oppose a mother's "choice" to abandon her baby in the womb think little about how pro-choice they are when it comes to leaving children in day-care centers and public school warehouses 50-plus hours a week. A child's life doesn't end once he is born. He still needs his mother.
What message was sent to the mothers of America as Sarah Palin took the vice-presidential spotlight while her children watched from the shadows?"
From: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74043
After reading these comments I am very confused. I am surprised, Kelly, that you would vote for Obama thinking that God would bless you for not voting for a female VP. Is it really more important to not have a female VP but vote someone into office that is Pro-Choice and supports emergency contraception. I guess I am so used to the conservative views on this blog that today I was quite surprised.
Terri,
Surely you can not think by my comments that I am voting for Obama!
That would be heresy, in the least. I’m calling Christians to REFUSE to vote for any candidate who blatantly defies the principles of God…the same thing He has always asked of His people.
McCain or Obama offer me no choice. I must vote third party or decline altogether.
On “wasting your vote”, this comment from a thoughtful patriot:
“To be honest, the Signers of the Declaration of Independence were wasting their ‘vote’ per se. They were signing a document that would have them hanged and expressing their opposition to the most powerful empire in the world.
They risked everything they had including their lives to make a statement without knowing what the end result would be. They founded our Freedom based on ideas that seemed radical at the time and risking that they would not come out as winners because they valued the the possible end result of Freedom.
Our country was founded on the ideas of making your vote count based on what you believe, not betting on the winning horse. Just remember that by voting for the winning horse, you are VOTING FOR A HORSE.
Why not just vote for where your principles and ideas are? Is it really bad for you to lose? We all lose if you don’t vote for your principles and rather follow who the media says will be the front runner.”
Kelly,
The quote from your upcoming post gave me goosebumps as I read it. I so look forward to reading the entire post.
This is the part that so many Christians are missing. God is Sovereign. We are not supposed to help God with our vote we are supposed to honor God with our vote and let Him handle the rest.
Either of these two choices will bring judgement on our nation. We as Christians should be voting for a candidate that honors God. We will stand in judgement for all we do even our vote. If we know what is right we should vote for what is right.
If we believe it is wrong for a young mother to leave children at home and run a nation we should not vote for McCain Palin. If we believe a woman should not rule over a man we should not vote for McCain/Palin. If we believe abortion is wrong we should not vote for Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin.
It is as simple as that. We as Christians cannot support by our votes or anything else something that the Bible says is wrong or not to be.
Let us not fall for the wolf in sheep’s clothing.
From which thoughful patriot did you get the “wasting your vote” quote from?
Anon,
I have no idea who it was–anonymous comment I found doing a search and agreed with.
As I was reading these comments, a thought came to me. I have heard you and many others say they will be voting 3rd party. I do not know any 3rd party that will be on the Wisconsin ballot other than Ralph Nader. If I truly decided to vote my principals exclusively, thus leaving out McCain/ Palin, I would have no one to vote for. Who is 3rd party that will be on ALL state ballots? This is an honest question, I’m not trying to stir anyone up.
My husband and I have discussed this more and more. I have expressed concern over Palin a lot. He basically told me, women will rule over men when there are no Godly men that will step up. We need to pray for more Godly men to *gasp* go into politics so we will not have this problem of choosing the “lesser” of two evils in the future.
the Henderson family,
Very well spoken..concise and truthful.
Rachel,
In the “Discretion” post thread, SM mentioned they are voting for Chuck Baldwin who will be on the ballot as a third party candidate. You can look him up.
You are also free to write in your vote. (Voddie Baucham for president, anyone?
And I personally believe it is better not to vote than support candidates who do not honor God in their core principles.
We also like Ron Paul, although he is officially not on the ballot.
Might I add that Ron Paul was on the ballot before the primaries and Christians did not support him…I had not thought of this, and now when I consider the “no men to rule” dilemma, I realize there have been some–we just didn’t want them ;-(
No, McCain is not as prolife as we’d like. But even if he doesn’t repeal it, he’s not going to cause it to slide further. I’d rather hold the ground we’ve won, than lose more. Stem cell research does not have ONLY to do with abortion. There are other lines and ways of stem cells, and from what I understand, ultimately that is what Senator McCain supports.
Also, I’m kind of wondering how the rest of the world thinks about this uniquely American view–as there are world leaders that are women, and I’m sure quite a few of them would take issue with the idea that they are (or their country is) under God’s wrath. Women in politics and places of civil leadership is nothing new, even when state and church were best friends. This isn’t the sign of the end or the writing on the wall for America. It’s different, for sure, but truly not novel–and not the end of the nation.
Mrs. Taft: Let’s not mix apples and oranges. Let’s not confuse the world to the holy life in Christ. I’m not sure it’s uniquely American. Uniquely followers of Christ? Yes. What other parts of our world thinks… who cares? God’s Word is our compass.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2008/09/the-palin-predi.html#uslPageReturn
Maybe if you can’t convince people not to vote for Sarah Palin, this article and these QUESTIONS will. This summed it up for me! No WAY will I vote for a woman to be the leader of every man in the United States, which is exactly what will happen if John McCain Dies. Maybe you should post this article on your blog. I think it might help many on the fence.
Jessica
Jessica,
I have had parts of that very article and “my two cents” typed up in a post since Monday…I’ll probably post it tonight–trying not to overwhelm everybody
Thanks!
Civilla,
I’ve talked about Deborah several times over the course of this disucssion (this is about the 5th or 6th post about Palin) you can find them if you scroll back.
Also, there are some excellent articles dispelling the idea that Deborah provides a normative example for our culture. Deborah did what she should have done: inspired a man to lead.
As a Christian, would my vote for a female civil magistrate (not to mention the compromise I would have to take to support McCain), not be declaring the wisdom of God to be foolish, declaring reason to be stronger than faith? Am I not declaring that the church–the body of Christ, can live without its head?
No. First of all, your vote against McCain (for Obama, for a third party candidate who has no chance of winning, or for no one) would show the bald truth of how convoluted your belief system is. It would be a statement, unequivocally, that you believe that headship/submission is a more important Biblical precept than not killing innocent babies. Sister, I beg you to realize (and admit) that this is not so.
You may think that McCain will not change the status of abortion, but you are probably wrong. Look at the current makeup of the Supreme Court: Roberts (age 53, conservative), Stevens (88, liberal-leaning, esp. on abortion), Scalia (72, conservative), Kennedy (72, centrist to liberal), Souter (69, liberal), Thomas (60, conservative), Ginsburg (75, liberal), Breyer (70, liberal), and Alito (58, conservative). The average age of the liberal end of the court (counting Kennedy) is 74.8; the average of the conservative end is 60.75. The likelihood that Mr. Stevens will die or retire during the next President’s tenure is nearly 100%. The probability is also moderate to high that Scalia (72), Kennedy (72), Ginsburg (75), Breyer (70), or possibly even Souter (69) will leave a vacancy. All but one is a liberal-leaning Justice.
We know that the Supreme Court stands about 5 to 4 on abortion right now. If even one of the liberal Justices dies or retires while McCain is in office, we have the potential to overturn Roe v. Wade. McCain has said that he intends to appoint conservative Justices because he would like to see Roe overturned. Would you rather see one woman as VP or even President, or 1.2 million dead babies in our land? A preference for the latter is morally disgusting to me, no matter how you try to dress it up with pretty words about submission and women in leadership. You are missing the forest for the trees.
My second point is not at all related to the first, but it’s important nonetheless. Do you go shopping on Sundays or at places that have female employees? If so, isn’t that declaring that the wisdom of God is foolish? Women, in your opinion, aren’t supposed to work outside the home. They are not to be under the authority of any man who is not their father or husband. So if you accept services from such women, are you sinning? If not, then why is it a sin to accept service as VP or President from a woman? The Sabbath is supposed to be kept holy. If you require others to work on this day that God in His wisdom set apart for rest, are you declaring that the wisdom of God is foolish?
As all citizens do, you have a responsibility to vote your conscience. However, I beg of you to make a more careful examination of said conscience before you cast your vote, given all that’s at stake.
Anon,
Vehemently disagreed.
First thing is that I’m not NOT voting for McCain because he has a female running mate. His VP choice did nothing more than confirm my position.
To be “almost pro-life” is not pro-life. McCain promises nothing more than any other “conservative, pro-life” candidate ever has, and the abortion industry continues to grow. Electing so-called “pro-life” Presidents who aren’t pro-life to the core has done nothing to save the lives of slaughtered babies. Don’t make the mistake of accusing me of placing headship over murder.
I will not compromise by electing the kind of man who says he’s pro-life, then says he might allow his daughter to get an abortion, supports embryonic stem cell research AND supports the atrocious presence of Planned Parenthood in public schools–the fountain head of the abortion industry.
No, I try not to shop on the Sabbath, and we have just recently “tightened up” our resolve not to do so for the very reasons you bring up.
When I have choices about women professions (doctors, for example), I choose men. When I don’t have choices, I don’t. A clerk at Wal-Mart isn’t in civil rule–and I didn’t elect her to be there.
To be “almost pro-life” is not pro-life. McCain promises nothing more than any other “conservative, pro-life” candidate ever has, and the abortion industry continues to grow.
First of all, abortion is not growing in the United States. It is declining. Secondly, make no mistake: abortion continues because Bush Sr. made unwise Supreme Court appointments and Bill Clinton was pro-choice. If we could consistently, as a country, elect pro-life (or at least anti-Roe) candidates to the Presidency, we could see the end of abortion in the next Presidency, and certainly in the next decade.
Electing so-called “pro-life” Presidents who aren’t pro-life to the core has done nothing to save the lives of slaughtered babies. Don’t make the mistake of accusing me of placing headship over murder.
It would have done something if we had done this consistently, but we haven’t.
I will not compromise by electing the kind of man who says he’s pro-life, then says he might allow his daughter to get an abortion, supports embryonic stem cell research AND supports the atrocious presence of Planned Parenthood in public schools–the fountain head of the abortion industry.
McCain never said he might allow his daughter to get an abortion. That’s a gross distortion. He said that there would be a family discussion, not that that discussion would be followed by the murder of his grandchild. Second, many pro-life people support embryonic stem cell research under the premise that life begins not at conception, but at implantation. The vast majority of people in the pro-life movement believe this, though some do not (these must necessarily oppose hormonal birth control and breastfeeding, which can both cause the loss of an unimplanted embryo). As for the support of PP in public schools, can you give me a reference? I had not heard that.
No, I try not to shop on the Sabbath, and we have just recently “tightened up” our resolve not to do so for the very reasons you bring up.
Well, at least you’re consistent on this point.
When I have choices about women professions (doctors, for example), I choose men. When I don’t have choices, I don’t. A clerk at Wal-Mart isn’t in civil rule–and I didn’t elect her to be there.
True enough, but by shopping at a place that employs women outside the home, you are supporting the concept of women working outside the home and being under the headship of a man who is not their husband. This is true in an indirect sense if you visit a doctor’s office that employs women doctors or nurses, even if you don’t use them. Your money supports their employment. This is also true no matter who your cashier is at Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart employs women and places itself in authority over women who have husbands. This has nothing to do with whether or not the woman is in civil rule, but whether or not you are calling God’s wisdom foolish by supporting women who are not under the headship proper for them (either their husbands or their fathers).
I mean no disrespect in asking questions and pointing things out, but I am seriously questioning the position of yourself and of LAF. I am trying as hard as I can to understand your side of it, even though I probably still won’t agree, but I just don’t see how the headship issue trumps the abortion issue. If I’m understanding your position correctly, you’re saying that it doesn’t. But you’re also saying you don’t think abortion will change if we elect McCain. Do I have that right?
If you were absolutely sure that abortion would end in a McCain administration, would you then cast your vote for McCain/Palin?
I had another thought regarding Anon’s last comment–the debate over “what’s the most important, women’s roles or abortion?”
I guess I see this on a larger scale. I think we need to be reminded of some not so pleasant activities of God in His judgement over the nation of Israel, which I think parallels what we’re seeing in our country.
God said, in a nutshell, “Stop following the dictates of your own hearts, stop following false idols, and turn back to obedience to Me..IF YOU DON’T, I will destroy your land, I will cause your children to fall by the sword, I will cause foreigners to plunder your inheritance…”
He even mentions “unspeakable” things such as women will begin to eat their own children.
I say all that to point out an obvious principle: could it be that the atrocities of abortion that we all so despertely want to end are part of the judgement of “turning our hearts” away from Him in other areas?
We’ve followed after feminism, humanism and socialism–the dictates of our own hearts,and allowed our children to be taught by the same “gods”, and we are reaping judgement! We have NOT lived out Deuteronomy 6, we have not brought our children up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. If we had, there would be an army of godly men and women and families all across this nation.
So it’s not about “this issue is more important than that”…we can’t FIX these major problems; only God’s pleasure with our obedience can. “Turn to me, and I will heal your land”.
We can’t help God stop abortion by electing a *kind of* pro-life President. All we can do is staunchly obey, in every way–in our personal lives, in our voting choices–in everything, and allow God to do something miraculous and beautiful.
Our redemption did not give us a ticket to live how we want to live. It gave us a reason to obey.
One more thought, and I’ll leave you with this.
God is sovereign in all things. Romans 13:1 says that ALL authorities exist because they were appointed or established by God. It was God’s will for Sarah Palin to become the Governor of Alaska. It may very well be His will for her to become the Vice President or even the President.
If it is His will for Mrs. Palin to become the Vice President, is it then a sin to cast a vote against her? If God, in His wisdom, has decided to place her in authority, then you are calling His wisdom foolish if you say that it is wrong for her to become the Vice President.
I believe that I can cast a vote for John McCain with a clean conscience and in pure obedience to God. A vote against Mr. McCain appears, at least to me, to be a vote for the continuance of the tragedy of abortion in the United States.
God could intervene, of course. But barring that, John McCain is the only one, besides one of the liberal Supreme Court Justices, who has the power to end the wholesale killing of over 3,000 Americans on a daily basis.
As I’m praying, the words come to me that I think articulate my “big picture” thing I’m talking about…we can’t choose “headship vs. abortion” as a platform for voting.
We go to the root…
Abortions took place before they were legal. Legalizing them increased them some, but what is really at the heart of why the abortion industry is so huge?
Let’s be honest:
1. Children are not being raised in homes where they are being taught abstinence and then being guarded, on a practical level, against it (this used to be the norm), so as more youth are sexually active, more abortions are performed.
2. The moral character of children which holds hands with the above statement has deteriorated because there aren’t even parents home to take on this huge responsibility of teaching it. The nurturer of the family has gone to pursue a career so they can have a “better life”. Even when the physical presence is there, the vision and understanding of the parent’s role is not.
3. Since parents aren’t teaching morality, we’ve allowed the school system (and our kids’ peers) to do it. Planned Parenthood is having a hay day.
4. The heavy pressure of women to succeed in their careers causes far more married women to seek abortions–children interfere. Of course far more parents seek abortions for their own grandchildren (when their kids are pregnant out of wedlock) as they place a higher priority on “future success” than anything.
I could go on…do you see the cycle? Bottom line? The breakdown of the family is at the root of the abortion industry’s success. That’s why holding up yet another career woman, to say “this is the answer to end abortion” is so nuts to me!
It won’t end it! Only restoring the family will!
One more thing…I forgot to include that the abortion industry skyrocketed once contraceptives were made acceptable–even among Christians.
Here’s a thought-provoking article related:
http://www.godsplanforlife.org/Teachings/Root%20Cause%20Of%20Abortion.htm
Word Warrior,
Anon was right on.
You are clearly blinded by the “religious” “legalistic ” views of you Southern Baptist Denomination. Remember when the “Religious” “Legalistic” church leaders tried to condem Jesus for healing on the Sabbath..they missed the big picture…as are you.
I’m not Southern Baptist…and I’m impressed that you can know my heart and therefore determine that I am legalistic.
First – Don’t need to be in your heart, I can read what you write. Out of the mouth (or keyboard in this case) comes what is in the heart.
I can find nowhere in the bible where it says that women cannot be civic leaders. Sarah Palin is a born again, bible believing christian who would bring her ethics and values to Washington. The alternative is chillingly evil.
What you want to do by voting for a third party with no chance (zero, none, nada, zippo) of winning, is essentially splitting the baby. (Read 1 Kings 3: 16-28)
Splitting the baby is an unreasonable decision, and might refer to any judgment that must be made when the details are hard to determine. It is actually no solution, but a threat, which attempts to flush out the truth of a situation, so as to make the wisest decision. You want to actually split the baby. That is not wisdom. Come down on the right side here WW.
I will not argue with you anymore, but leave you with this – “Matthew 7:6 Do not give dogs what is sacred, do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet and then turn and tear you to pieces.” This is what you are doing here with people who are trying to show you the light.
You just refuse to see the forrest for the trees.
Truthfully, you should be encouraging the women here to follow their husband’s lead. Several women have stated that their husbands will vote for McCain/Palin, but that they feel conflicted. In order for these women to follow their “head,” they need to follow his vote, and we should encourage them to do so.
Kelly, I don’t question your heart at all. I see your zeal, and your concern, and your desire to follow the Word of God.
I have the same desire, but differing interpretations. My head, my husband, agrees that the Lord would prefer that we protect the vulnerable and innocent infant in the womb (specifically, Down’s children, of whom 90 percent are aborted) than quibble over an extraordinary woman’s civic role.
You think she is a curse, we think she is a gift for a crucial time. Perhaps you pray for her defeat, but we pray that none will stand against the Lord’s annointed.
Nonetheless, Kelly, you are loved and valued by me, and by many others. I agree with you on so many of the topics regarding family and home that you write about.
I pray that you would sense the Lord’s heart on this – not only feel His displeasure and His wrath when rigid rules are not followed. I pray that you would see that sometimes He breaks out of our human expectations because He longs to do something remarkable.
Holly,
You may be interested in reading the post “Striking the Root of Abortion” as well as the comment thread. Following husband’s leading came up in the thread.
This certainly brings up an interesting question about how we interpret Scripture:
I have always felt that the command to be a keeper at home, qualified with SO THAT THE WORD OF GOD IS NOT BLASPHEMED must carry huge import. And have therefore virtually treated it like most other commands.
If McCain had chosen a homosexual for his running mate, we (Christians) would probably (I hope) not be supporting the team.
Why? Because most of us still believe homosexuality is forbidden by Scripture.
But the concept of being a keeper at home as a command equal to others is foreign to us.
I guess this is why we’ve parted directions suddenly…I still feel the same way I always have about what God’s Word says about being a keeper at home, and the shame of women ruling over men.
Those clear commands, together with the fact that no matter how strongly Palin feels about issues she will have very little power to change them, makes this issue rather simple to us.
I don’t want to split friendships over it, for sure. And I hope my strong stance is viewed as just that…not some rebellion against those who differ in opinion.
Warmly,
Me
Word Warrior,
The book of Titus was written to “Cretans”. If you read the introduction to the book in a study bible, you will see that the Cretans at the time were terrible people. They did not even know the basic operational rules of society or family…They were “Always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies!
and Paul and Titus were trying to start a church among them. They needed some basic instruction on how to be decent people. Yes, the instruction was good for them and is good for us now, but look at the context of who Paul was meaning it for and why. I don’t read or feel in my heart or my head that this was written to limit women and keep them from excelling outside the home. (I have worked in the past, and have been at home with my children for the last 13 years) From what I see, I don’t think you can say Palin is not taking care of her home and kids. Women in leadership roles is a sign of trouble for our nation. Maybe God is tired of generations men in power who could not do anything about millions of babies being murdered every year. As far as Palin’s priorities, that’s betweeen she and God. Kelly, you yourself are a leader of Christian women, whether you intended to be or not. I caution you to be extremely careful as not to mislead those who look to you for instruction. To judge and condemn Sarah, a fellow believer, who many believe is chosen for this time by God, is a very, very serious matter. I saw a tape of her Pastor(who was in tears) in her home church praying that God would use her for great things! Wow! I think God exceeded those expectations.
Palin, as far as I can see is still under the authority of her husband and will be under McCain’s authority, under the authority of her church and ultimately what matters under God’s authority. So what are you worried about? Sarah Palin is not a “Feminist” in the sense that some are making her out to be. She is quite the opposite..the anti-feminist , the anti-Hillary Clinton. Feminists despise her because of what she stands for. If God decides to take McCain, that will be his decision, right? My husband also wants us to vote for McCain / Palin. We have prayed about it, studied the scriptures and have tried to apply wisdom, as instructed in Proverbs. As a christian, there is only one choice. Also, I We will be voting for McCain / Palin.
God Bless!
Cheri,
There are many faulty lines of thinking in your comment. Let me first say that your warning to me not to mislead women could be handed right back to you…to make the Scriptures relative so we can feel good about the way we want to live life is, well, I think Titus 2 called it “blaspheming the Word of God”. God didn’t inspire the Scriptures in such a way as to require study Bibles for our understanding. I could read into every command if I took the line of reasoning you use.
Furthermore, (I feel like a broken record), I’m not discussing this election just because of a woman running for Vice President…that adds to the argument, but hear me clearly…
I, as well as MANY other Christians and leaders, firmly stated that they COULD NOT vote for McCain because of many of his stands that are anti-biblical. In case anyone has forgotten, McCain is still the same man.
When I stand before God and give an account for my freedom to speak about the leaders of this country, (God is sovereign, we still vote–that makes us responsible), I would not be able to explain why I voted for a man who believes abortion is wrong sometimes. who does not acknowledge that God is the Creator of the universe (no, McCain is an evolutionist), and suports sodomite marriages.! (Have we completely forgotten about Sodom and Gomorrah?!)
In case you’re skeptical about that last assertion, let me give you a quote FROM MCCAIN:
“I think, uh … I think that gay marriage should be allowed if there’s a ceremony kind of thing, if you wanna call it that … I don’t have any problem with that,” McCain says.
To say he is “less ungodly” than Obama, so we have to vote for him? It’s like choosing to have my leg amputated or my arm.
Given his lack of principled standing, anything goes, if it can be proven that it’s inconvenient enough, or hard enough, or popular enough.
Am I to believe that Christians will receive blessing for electing this kind of man?
Palin doesn’t even have to enter the debate for us to see. Let me remind you of what James Dobson said before Palin was chosen as McCain’s running mate:
“Speaking as a private individual, I would not vote for John McCain under any circumstances…and there are a lot of other things. He’s not in favor of traditional marriage, and I pray that we won’t get stuck with him,” Dobson said.
You said “to judge and condemn Sarah Palin…” I have not judged. I have spoken what God’s word says about authority, about mothers and wives, and about women in ruling positions. We so don’t understand that word “judge” that we throw around everywhere to shame people.
Calling a spade a spade…it’s “judging” for me to say I believe Scripture commands a wife and mother to be a keeper at home, and not ruling the nation, but it’s not judging if someone says “we can’t vote for Obama because he believes in abortion”?
Double standard? What we’re really saying is that we believe abortion is wrong because God’s Word says it. But we don’t believe that stuff about women is wrong because, well, Paul was talking to Cretans, and, you know, culturally, things are different…
No way. If we can’t see through this issue, which is admittedly, a little trying, why on earth can’t we connect the devastation of families and moral values all around us with our “tolerance” and disobedience to the Scriptures? We already right in the middle of God’s judgement and we can’t even see it!
We’re pragmatists. We don’t believe God can do miracles. We don’t believe He’s in control. Imagine if Noah, David, or Daniel, or Moses, or Abraham had operated pragmatically, like we do? Imagine it! Think about their lives, what they were up against, and how “irrational” the things they were forced to choose seemed to those around them!
God said it to them, and He’s still saying it to us…”Stop acting based on your “wisdom” and walk in blind faith…do what is right and let me exalt your nation”! He has told us what is right…we just have to believe it.
We’ve been exalted; and it’s because our forefathers weren’t pragamatists. They were men of principle and conviction…no matter what. We’re still riding on their coattails…but it’s about to end unless we snap out of it.
One more thought…
The comment about seeing Palin’s pastor praying God would use her for great things…it made me sick to my stomach. It reveals exactly what is so wrong with us.
She was already being used for great things. God had given her dominion over a home with 5 children–5 arrows, to be raised up as a godly seed and shot into the next generation. The power she had in her home was unequivocable.
She has given up steak for spam.
I don’t think she has, Kelly. She’s still a very strong presence in her home.