You are certainly gracious to share your experience with us.

Thank you for voicing the need for God’s people to have BOTH compassion and Truth.

Love for the lost does mean that we need to actually care about them rather than simply condemn sinful tendencies.

Heather

What matters is that you righted yourself with God’s help.

I dont have much time now, but am open to learning more. Sadly, I feel if we were talking right across from each other, so much wouldnt be lost in conversation…..be back tomorrow.

Don’t apologize for the length of your comment. It is so helpful to have a “struggler” be so open and truthful about this often misundertood subject. I’m so very thankful for your willingness to face truth and do the hard things. THANK YOU.

My dad was always into sports, hunting, & fishing. I had no interest in that – I wanted to read. I was the only boy in my family, was picked on from an early age by my male cousins, and then by other boys at school. I hung around with the girls, for that is who I was used to, and felt safer around. I remember around the age of 8-9 my mom telling me that my dad felt I was too old for him to hug and/or kiss anymore. I was devastated. I watched for years as he did so with my younger sisters, never understanding why, and feeling he didn’t approve of me nor love me. I received one hug from him from that time – when I graduated and the parents came through the receiving line. I have seen men hug their teenage or older sons and felt so envious. Side note, getting 3 nephews in the last 8 years who will let me hug and kiss them has given some healing in that area.

I went onto Bible College, and was again targeted for being picked on. Looking back at those, and my school years, I have to wonder if I had stood up for myself, bloodied some noses, if things would be different, but we can never know that. And I’d like to make the point that I was never effeminate, or a “sissy”. I just wasn’t into sports, nor was good at them, and since I wasn’t, became a target.

The father issue: I see now that my dad did love me, still struggle with the approval part, but some guys just can’t show it. Good song about that at this website, though it will be replaced with another shortly: http://www.hvministry.com. A boy who has no positive male role model in his life, and/or feels the one he has doesn’t love him or approve of him, is going to seek it from other men. Where, how, and when that can turn to same-sex attractions, I don’t know for sure, but it can, and often does. Most gay males do not have a loving relationship with their father – there are exceptions, but a large percentage do not.

As for peers, somewhere along the line I, and other boys, start viewing other boys as different from me. Just as girls admire their muscles, etc, so does a boy who is feeling alienated and different from other boys. That admiration and envy soon turns into desire for other boys. And this doesn’t always happen – depends on the other circumstances in his life. If he has a father who outwardly shows affection, this may not affect him negatively. So, I really don’t believe I had a choice in feeling same sex attraction. We can not live our lives thinking “what if”, but choices I made may have led me different if I had chosen differently – tried harder to excel at sports, fought back when boys bullied me, but overall, several things combined led me to develop same sex attractions. And in some boys, it may not have done so, but in my makeup and personality, it did.

Acceptance. We do need to accept people as a person, love them, befriend them, but not their sin. If your friend is a promiscuous heterosexual, you will still be their friend, but are not going to approve of their sinful lifestyle. If your friend is openly gay, the same applies. If he is your friend, he isn’t going to shove it down your throat, and at the same time, you can be his friend, not approve of his sinful lifestyle, and pray for him without badgering him.

To open our arms to the lifestyle and not call it sin, is damning people to hell. Our tolerance/acceptance of them as a person, should never be replaced with acceptance of the sin. Might be a fine line, but as Christians, we are to be salt, and we cannot be salt if we smile at sin, and let people believe it is ok, and the Bible clearly states sex between 2 of the same sex is sin.

If you are friends with an openly gay person, that isn’t someone you want for a role model for your child – not because he is a bad person – I can relate to that – but because you don’t want your kids thinking the lifestyle is ok. It isn’t. But neither do you want them to have a heterosexual role model who has no respect for sexual purity and marriage.

There is too much homophobia today in the church. People equate homosexuality with child molestation, and some gay men do that, but far more heterosexual men are guilty of it. When I was hanging around in chat rooms, there were always a couple of teenage boys, sometimes as young as 13, and I am sure there was always someone who would go for them, but that is not the norm. Gay men are attracted to other men, not boys.

My Sunday School class had a month on social issues a few months ago. One Sunday, we covered the issue of gay marriage, which I am against. I was fighting tears throughout the class because of some of the comments. “Perverts” was said a few times, a couple of guys said they wouldn’t want those kind of people around their kids, one said he would rather have his kids be around a prostitute.

I had made some comments about gay marriage – I am against it – and after church, the leader thanked me for my comments, then said something to this effect “its just like child molesters and rapists – I wouldn’t want my boys around those kind of people”. This was a guy I call a friend, and I had told of my struggles a few years ago. At the time, he said he knew other guys that had dealt with it, and if I ever needed to talk, he was there. I am guessing he forgot, since I never took him up on his offer. But no wonder we have boys and men in our churches suffering in silence today.

I go to a fairly small church by some standards – runs 220-250, so everyone knows everybody else pretty well. There are a handful of guys who know of my struggle. I moved away for a couple of years, and am now back, and none of those guys have asked how I am doing, not even my pastor. I may be guilty of expecting too much, but the church also needs to do more in extending a hand to guys who are struggling with this issue. If we were more open to discussing it – still calling it sin, but dealing with the issue in a more loving way, I think more of our boys and men would come forward for help, instead of struggling in silence, and all too often exploring their sexuality. You might be amazed at how many men and young men (over 18) that I have run into who attend church regularly, but deal with this issue, and some of them are exploring it, and many of them are married.

I don’t have all the answers in this area. We do need to love more, and reach out more to homosexuals, but yet, we cannot let them take over the country to the point we cannot say it is a sin, etc. If you followed the proposition 8 ordeal in CA, you can see they are capable of the very hate and intolerance they say that we are.

Hope this helps and answers some questions. Again, I am sorry for the length – I outdid any woman!

I know you say you dont believe you were BORN gay. I am open to possibly believing that people arent born that way; I am just not sure yet. Anyway, my question is this: Do you believe that either way YOU didnt necessarily CHOOSE it? meaning, to BE that way????

I know to act out on it is a different story, with anything. I am simply speaking of BEING homosexual..do you think you chose that too, or that possibly life experiences, traumas, or inefficiencies contributed?

I suppose maybe our definitions of “acceptance” and “redemmed” differ. I view acceptance as something that God does for us all the time. Redeemed is something DONE for us, possibly unless we turn our backs. Accepted means loved to me; redemption means pleasing and clean. Everyone is accepted…not everyone is redeemed. Everyone is alowed and called……..not all take God up on it though. So my version of ‘acceptance’ might be where I lost you….or maybe not.

I feel almost famous that only *my* comments got recognition by forwarding. Hahahaha….

***Homosexuality, and all sexual sins, are raised above other sins all too often, and in some ways, that makes sense, as sexual sins can be more far reaching in consequences, but all too often, people struggling with this issue do so in silence – they are afraid what their church and friends will say, so they struggle for years with a cross that is heavy to carry.***

Why? Becasue what people will say. THAT is a biggie I was *trying* to make a point on. That if these people KNEW they were accepted just as they are, just as they arrive..perhaps they wouldnt be so shame-filled, or frightened. IMO the first step to overcoming, if one chooses to do so-is beign accepted. God knew that we needed that to tarry on, so he provided that. Jesus is there, right now, available to any alive and breathing human being-waiting with full acceptance of WHO THEY ARE. WHAT THEY DO-to me is a separate issue. What we do carries consequences. WHO WE ARE doesnt. (my opinion). I know some may say what we do makes us who we are….I still believe behavior is different, and handled differently, by God.

***I do not believe it is a sin to have homosexual desires and attractions – most of cannot help it that we do. I have my ideas, supported by many others, won’t go into that here – the sin is acting out on those desires. In some ways, we are just like the heterosexual male – if he is Christian, he must battle lust and sexual thoughts that are wrong.***

I was partially trying to say that as well. Cannot really figure out what I said that was so off-base, except that I focus more on the accepting part than pointing out behavioral issues. Some are better at teaching behavior if they so desire. I am better at embracing people; I tend to believe compassion and mercy are my gifts.

I do agree that IF something is wrong, it is a disservice to say otherwise. Doing that only confuses the person as to why their conscience then bothers them. But the same happens on the other side of the wall. Sometimes, people are accused of sin when none is there-those people unfortunately devlop over-active guilty consciences. Very hard to change, as I am one of those. I suppose being balanced is key, as calling sin when there is no sin is just as equally disastrous to the individual in question. Naturally sicne I have been more affected through life experince by the latter scenario, I tend to defend that side of the quarter…..take care.

***While Jesus died for us “while we were yet sinners”, that doesn’t mean all stand acceptable, i.e. “redeemed” before Him.***

What I meant is, first and foremost, people need to know they are accepted AS THEY ARE, to even fathom continuing on in a lifestyle of Christianity, which includes OVERCOMING. I know I got caught up in ‘performing’ quite quickly after my conversion at age 22….instead of being able to reflect on my acceptedness by God. I see many today struggling why they dont overcome. I wonder if it is a common problem that people dont understand God is FOR them and ACCEPTS them today. I love my children everyday and accept the reality of where they are everyday in their growth. I hope it is BECAUSE of that love expressed to them, that they desire to tarry on forward. To try. To know they are accepted evben when they fall, so that they have the will to get up and try again.

I was not trying to say there is not, IMO, criteria to the afterlife….eternal life. I was speaking more about “what can we do now to come alongside people?”

***His are known by their fruits, and their obedience. A willful lifestlye of sin is vastly different than my daily struggle with sin over which I am grieved, repentant, and trying to overcome.***

Agreed. (just a side note: Though I dont think we can always determine ‘grief’ over sin just by what we see on the outside. God knowsx many a time i looked hearthearted and a waste of time to people on the outside…..but when i was all alone, my heart had times of breaking over my actions.)

Thank you for your insightful comments.

Amazing… and hopeful!

I am personally committing myself to pray for you.

Thanks again!