Baucham: What’s Wrong With the World–The Supremacy of Christ

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20 Responses to “Baucham: What’s Wrong With the World–The Supremacy of Christ”

  1. Mother of Dog says:

    Given the fact that he believes that I will burn in Hell for being a Jew – I’m not sure why he sees fit to conflate anything with Nazism.

    I also want to mention that the conflation between Darwinism and abortion is really reaching – there are many studies that the high number of abortion rates among poor women of any color has to do with available birth control methods, not a desire to “stamp” out the race. When birth control becomes available these rates go way down. In fact, abortion rates have declined by a large amount since 2000.

    Further, Darwin was merely stating scientific fact when offering a hypothesis of survival of the fittest, he was not ADVOCATING it as a method to be mirrored in society.

  2. Word Warrior says:

    MOD,

    “When birth control becomes available these rates go way down. In fact, abortion rates have declined by a large amount since 2000.”

    I don’t believe this is a true statement. In fact, I’ve read the oppostie is true…where are your sources?

  3. Word Warrior says:

    MOD,

    Also, your comment really doesn’t address Dr. Baucham’s point: his point is that we have hated Hitler for his viewing another race as inferior and therefore making it “acceptable” to exterminate them; then we have done exactly the same thing with the unborn.

    No one can deny that if we valued life in the womb as we value our own, we would not feel the liberty to kill it because it was deemed “inconvenient”. There’s just no way around that argument.

    One who supports the right to an abortion is no less guilty than Hitler of an ignorant view of life.

  4. Mother of Dog says:

    I make a point not to argue my pro-choice stance with Christians – it does no good, we aren’t going to agree, and I don’t want to “poke” you for your beliefs. However, I’m not even talking about that. I’m talking about the way Mr. Voddie B. feels that invoking Hitler is okay here, even when his supposition is that Jews die in a fiery pit. I take it this is your belief too? Well, that strikes me as slightly disingenuous on his part. Fiery pit or genocide? Hmmm. Seems about the same to me.

    Hitler, by the way, was AGAINST abortion. He made it illegal in Germany.

    There are certainly ways around your argument, I just don’t want to go there with you. It’s really not worth it because we aren’t going to convince each other. I will say that it is in very bad taste to compare anyone pro-choice with Hitler. I don’t believe I go around ENCOURAGING anyone to abort a child. And the stats on abortion below:

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5461945.html

    The most comprehensive study in years of abortion in America underscores a striking change in the landscape..the number of abortions has plunged to 1.2 million a year, down 25 percent since hitting a peak in 1990.

    In the early 1980s, nearly one in three pregnant women chose abortion. The most recent data show that proportion is closer to one in five.

  5. Word Warrior says:

    MOD,

    You’re right about the abortion debate–no point.

    Let me carefully/strongly say one thing…

    You said, “Mr. Voddie B. feels that invoking Hitler is okay here, even when his supposition is that Jews die in a fiery pit. I take it this is your belief too? Well, that strikes me as slightly disingenuous on his part. Fiery pit or genocide? Hmmm. Seems about the same to me.”

    There is a major oversight to this statement and that is that God is God and Hitler is not. It may sound unfair to execute a final judgement that would cast people into hell; but if you created the universe and people in it, you get to call the shots. God doesn’t send people to hell because He *wants* to; He does it because He has to, yet wishing all al ong that *none should perish*. He is just and merciful at the same time, and full of compassion ready to save anyone who acknowledges Him and the workd of Redemption that His Son did for them.

    Baucham emphasizes that we have such a loving God He has chosen to spare many, many of us, and most of us on a daily basis. He doesn’t have to do that! It is because of His mercy we are not daily consumed; I pray–SINCERELY–that His light would be shed in your heart and you would be brought to a humble place of repentance and accepting of His mercy.

  6. Mrs. Santos says:

    Awesome – I’ve seen smaller clips of this before – so glad to hear more. Thanks for the post. It puts everything into the proper perspective when you know that your life is for the Glory of God – when you know it enough to live it, then you are FREE to love others – to really be a light – Wonderful!

  7. Mother of Dog says:

    I appreciate that you feel that way, Kelly. I hope you can accept the following as not an attempt to convince you or Voddie Bauschum, but simply to explain this – to my perspective, you can’t ask a Jew to accept Christ. There’s a lot of history there. My grandfather died in Auschwitz because he was a Jew. Can I believe that after a death like that, he would STILL go to a fiery pit of Hell because this is God’s ball game and that’s the way he plays? I don’t believe that.

    When your preacher invokes Hitler to convey his contempt for pro-choice advocates, I find it a little offensive. That’s all.

  8. Rachel Falaschi says:

    MOD,

    I’m just curious, why can’t you ask a Jew to accept Christ? The first “Christians” were jews. All 12 disciples of Christ were jews. There are many people of Jewish Heritage that are christians.

  9. Jasmine says:

    That’s a really good point, Rachel; I have known and known of many, many people of Jewish heritage who are Christians.

    The main thrust of Adolph Hitler’s extermination plan was geared towards Jews, but he had an arm planned for many other ethnic minorities as well, blacks among them. Margaret Sanger, champion of the “pro-choice” movement, was very clear about one of her aims for abortion being to keep “inferior” races and people groups from reproducing. Darwin’s work (“The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection: The Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life”) laid much of the groundwork for the understandings of both of these people, though, indeed, they each took it to their own extreme.

    This is only part of a message that was preached at a Desiring God conference a couple of years ago, but the thrust of the message isn’t so much about Darwinism, racism, or genocide as it is about secular humanism vs. Christian theism and how the different ways that they answer life’s fundamental questions. The example of Hitler was used to show the extreme side of the secular humanist argument.

    This is a great overview, though (in my extremely biased opinion); thanks for posting it, Mrs. Kelly!

  10. Jasmine says:

    Also, MOD,

    The height of “contempt,” for a believer, would not be to disagree with the worldview of another person based on the Scriptures; the height of contempt would be *not* to proclaim the truth of the gospel to them, in light of the imminent coming of Christ.

  11. Word Warrior says:

    Jasmine,

    You explain this issue much more eloquently than I can–a shining testimony to your father AND the wonders of Christ in your life. So thankful for your family’s ministry.

  12. Mother of Dog says:

    Jasmine, I’ll tell you why it is inappropriate to preach the gospel to a Jew. It’s because many, many members of my family DIED because they were Jews. And Jews do not believe in Christ as you do (although I do think he was probably a great teacher, I’ll give you that.) There are many many other reasons.

    I’ll go to my grave a Jew to honor my ancestry. I’m sure that Mrs. Anna T. feels the same.

    Darwinism….oh never mind. ;)

  13. Jasmine says:

    MOD,

    You know, it’s funny, my father preached this message after having a daughter who, for about six years, had collected, rather morbidly Holocaust memoirs. I spent countless nights trailing downstairs from my bedroom, knocking on my parents’ door, and weeping about the suffering of the 6 million men, women, and children who died during Hitler’s reign of terror, many men, women, who children who died in darkness ~apart from the light of Christ’s love.

    Though I would never discount the suffering of the Jewish during this reign (and during countless other times in history), the sufferings of the past is not a reason for me *not* to preach the gospel of my healing Savior… It quickens my heart even *more* to share about His glory, His justice, and His might ~as well as his grace and love.

    I have heard black people say it’s inappropriate for whites to declare their “snow-white” gospel to an oppressed people group; been said to have been brainwashed by western religion. I’ll go to my grave proud of my African heritage… but I’ll also go a blood-washed believer.

    Many people do not believe in Christ as I do…. which is why I’m called to preach the gospel to them. I’m not as concerned about appearing rude to Jewish people as I do about disobeying the call that the Lord has placed on my life.

    If Jesus was not the Christ, He was not a great teacher; He was a liar. And I don’t serve a God who lies.

    Nothing I can say could convert you ~once you’ve heard the gospel, the Holy Spirit does the changing, not me. So I don’t believe in beating you over the head with my leather-bound Bible. :D

    I was just dropping in to clear some things up about the message, and my father’s intent in using Hitler as an example. With a daughter as steeped in Holocaust history as I am, he’s well aware of the woes of that regime (though not as aware, of course, as you, ma’am, and I am sorry for that ~more than you can ever know).

  14. Word Warrior says:

    MOD,

    Then I can’t help but wonder, if it is “inappropriate to preach the gospel to a Jew”, why you read a blog where the gospel is continually being preached?

    We don’t think it is ever “inappropriate” to share what we believe is the only truth about salvation. As Jasmine said, it would be considered shameful to know something so important and NOT share it with everyone.

    I understand you “firm stand” as a Jew, much like I stand so firmly in my faith. But as long as you’re here, we’re going to keep sharing ;-)

  15. Kim M. says:

    Can I butt in here too? I have been reading (and praying for you MOD… that the Holy Spirit will knock at the door of your heart).

    Sharing the gospel with anyone is an act of love.

    One thing I wanted to say about the Jews. What happened to them was horrendous. But perhaps I am confused about why they died… maybe it is just me.
    Jasmine, maybe you could help me with this… Did the Jews die for their race or for their faith? Did Hitler spare the Christian ones?

    If that is the case, then why would accepting faith in Jesus have anything to do with the Auschwitz?

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

    http://www.houndsofheaven.com/thepoem.htm

  16. Kim M. says:

    I meant to add “if they died for their race only” to the sentence “then why would accepting faith in Jesus have anything to do with the Auschwitz”

  17. Jasmine says:

    You’re right, Mrs. Kim; Hitler’s main upset with the Jews was not their faith, but the fact that he believed them to be of an inferior race, as well as other “non-Aryan” minority groups. He also targeted the elderly, mentally retarded, homosexuals, and physically disabled. Countless Christians, political activists, and Jewish sympathizers also suffered in concentration camps.

  18. Kim M. says:

    Thank you Jasmine. That is what I thought. I knew that even at least one German Christian died trying to rescue them…. Deitrich Boenhoffer. His story is amazing.

    Interestingly from the dramatization I listened (Focus on the Family), he was inspired to love the Jews because he saw the same attitudes in the treatment of African Americans during his stay here in the United States. It eventually inspired him to defend the Jews and die for them.

  19. [...] Voddie Baucham The Supremecy of Christ Posted by root 23 hours ago (http://www.generationcedar.com) May 17 2009 also your comment really doesn 39 t address dr baucham point his point is i pray sincerely that his light would be shed in your heart and you would be generation cedar is powered by wordpress middot wordpress themes Discuss  |  Bury |  News | voddie baucham the supremecy of christ [...]

  20. Addie says:

    In an interview published in Sunday’s New York Times Magazine, Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said she thought the landmark Roe v. Wade decision on abortion was predicated on the Supreme Court majority’s desire to diminish “populations that we don’t want to have too many of.” My heart aches when I think how many babies have been killed.

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