J – “I don’t think that to want health insurance if you don’t have it means necessarily that you are coveting.”

– No, cercainly not! A person can look around him or her and see all kinds of things and want them without falling into covetousness. Many – such as health ins. are GOOD to want. What makes it coveting is when a person wants something and is willing (even theoretically – coveting is a sin that begins very obviously in the heart) to take it at someone else’s expense without their permission. Like in a democracy or democratic republic, through majority rule – tyrany of the majority.

J – “Lori, I wasn’t criticizing scripture. I was rather taken aback that what’s you thought, but perhaps that was because of the way I worded my comment.”
– To tell the truth, I don’t really remember how you worded your thought. But I certainly had the impression that whatever your concerns were, you were blowing off a commandment. Thank you for clarifying.

J – “Poor doesn’t equal undeserving.”
– Well, I certainly can agree with this! But teh truth is that deserving often is irrelevant. I mean, why is your neighbor looking at paralysis? Certainly not because of deserving! It’s very often the same with finantial means – it just is what it is, and has little or nothing to do with deserving.

If it makes any difference to you (and frankly it’s irrelevant – I don’t think experential knowledge is preferable to God’s word), I went without any health ins. for myself and family for a fairly long time. We couldn’t even afford catastrophic ins with the high deductable, or an emergency medical sharing program like Samaratin Ministries.

And I’d like to add, that talking of these issues in a no-nonsense way does not mean that those involved are uncaring. Or Non-donating.

Incedentally, I recommend that you check out samaratinministries.org – it’s a great service to those who want to take care of fellow believers in a biblical way, and it’s inexpensive, although the truth is that it won’t help your neighbor at this point, as she has a “pre-exixting condition.”

Also check out littletate.com – a family (who apparantly had no ins) had a baby 3 mos premature – and God has been providing for them finantially in a very creative way. I’m not saying it’ll help your neighbor, but it is surely a testimony to God’s goodness, and to the ability to fix some of our medical cost-issues without gov’t wealth redistribution.

I see what you mean now. I do agree, our system is broken in some regards. But I also think the government would only make it worse. I believe less government intervention would help with lower costs (making it more affordable for the poor), just like Ron Paul said. Whenever the government puts it’s fingers in something the cost ALWAYS goes up. When the free market is allowed to work properly competition drives down costs. That is something that should be looked into for healthcare.

Lori, I wasn’t criticizing scripture. I was rather taken aback that what’s you thought, but perhaps that was because of the way I worded my comment. I spoke passionately having just been with my neighbor who got the bad news about her possible paralysis. I just felt that coveting wasn’t what I had seen in those people who suffered because there wasn’t a better system in place. I saw sorrow, grief, pain, and a probable shortened lifespan (and there are lots of scriptures about the groaning of creation).

I might have misunderstood, and maybe you were concerned about being careful not to covet health insurance yourself, Lori, and of course I can’t speak to what’s in your own heart–that’s a different situation than what I was speaking to. And we do need to guard our hearts. But I don’t think that to want health insurance if you don’t have it means necessarily that you are coveting.

My neighbors I mentioned–they’re not lazy. She wants to work, but can’t because of her disability that can’t be addressed at the moment (it’s a vicious cycle!), and her two adult boys are working multiple minimum wage jobs just to cover medical expenses and put food on the table. Each time they save enough even to get a single clunker car for the family, their savings gets wiped out by something. A $3,000 one night (!) emergency stay in the hospital. And they have to choose between a car and food on the table. Now they have one, but can’t afford brakes for it. They’re handicapped by the medical system we have in place–and preventative medicine would be much less expensive than what I see happening in their family now. Now, I wasn’t even arguing for socialized medicine, I was just commenting that when we address issues like these, we need to consider people like those who will be deeply affected by the decisions that are made.

Poor doesn’t equal undeserving. And further undeserving is exactly the place that we all are in when Christ saved us.

Thank you for your senstivity…I think we would all agree with you about the need to emphasize compassion in a biblical sense; by the same token, the socialist approach our government is heading toward is so frustrating and frankly scary if you really understand the slippery slope (it’s so much more than providing some needed care for the poor)…and that is where the passion comes from, I think.

It’s a call for sure though for Christians to start putting their money where their mouth is.

Of course there is a debate about “who” needs help; after reading our devotion this morning where Paul admonishes the church “if a man does not work he shall not eat”, the question must be raised about who deserves charity. Certainly the widows and orphans; problem is, socialized health care would cover only a small fragment of that group while our tax dollars would be funding large amounts of, frankly, “those who won’t work”.

Does that make sense? Thanks for your comment.

I understand what you are saying. However, I don’t think you are understanding what we (who are against socialized health care) are saying. Besides the point that it increases taxes, we are against it because in every country it has been tried it hasn’t worked. The quality of care drops, and the government gets to decide who gets what care. If they think you are not worth a certain treatment because the cost to them is greater than you could be denied treatment. For an example, in Oregon state (which has it’s own state run insurance program for everyone similar to the one being proposed by congress) a woman with cancer received a letter stating that she would no longer be able to receive care for her treatment, it was just too expensive, but if she opted for it, they would be willing to pick up the bill for euthanasia! How could this type of care be considered Christ like?! People hear “healthcare for everyone” and assume the quality of care would not change, but that just isn’t so. It isn’t possible financially for the government no matter how high the taxes go.
We are not against the poor receiving health care. Instead, we would like to see reform outside of government.

In your example, seeing that you had cleft palate at birth, chances are under a socialist health care system you wouldn’t have been given the opportunity to even be born. The government would have decided for your mother. If they are paying the bill, they can decide what you can and can not do medically. Scary thought.

Rachel

And Joanna, “as (you are) a fellow Christian,” I respectfully suggest that where you criticize scripture, you counter with a scriptural support for your argument. Just so that we’re on the same page.

We should surely have compassion on the poor. YES, it is most beautiful and biblical. But we shouldn’t even need to defend our right to choose where we donate our money, or the right to donate it (as opposed to having it confiscated).

Remember, in the story of the good Samaratin, there was no Roman soldier pointing a sword at the Samaritin saying “gimme your money so I can pay the inkeeper.” Which is what our gov’t does. If you don’t pay those taxes you have some hard-core sanctions imposed on you.

Paul repeatedly talked about giving, and commended those early church congregants who gave *freely of their own hearts*. It was not forcibly excracted from them.

For some wonderful exploration on helping the poor, I highly recommend:

the book Bringing in the Sheaves by Rev. George Grant, and the video
“Charity That Works” with Rev. George Grant and Dr. Gary North.
Both are based on the bilical example of “gleaning” for charity. What’s the “That Works” part? Getting a person/family beyond the *need* for charity – getting them on their own two feet again, so to speak.

Remember too, when talking about what is or is more “Christ centered,” that while Christ took great pity on the suffering, he also railed against theivery and Pharaseeism, where they added rules to the Scripture about what makes for a godly person.