Radical Gay Activist Appointed to the Department of Education
Hat tip to Tawny…
Kevin Jennings, radical gay activist, has been appointed to the Department of Education, in charge of the “Safe Schools” program..jpg)
If you are a Christian and have children in public school, make sure you read this…
(I might as well state the disclaimer right up front…this is a Christian blog. And as such, I firmly believe that homosexuality is an abomination to God. That does NOT mean I hate homosexuals or promote hatred for them. I am no more anti-gay than I am anti-cohabitation. I’m anti-immorality, whatever form it takes. So if you comment to blast me for “hating”, don’t. I’ll delete the comment because you’re incorrect. This is not the place to try to convince me that immorality should be accepted and taught to our children. You won’t.)
I wanted to offer yet another reason Christians must strongly consider whether it is acceptable to allow our children to be taught by the state. And let me prod you to think about this…if we truly uphold all lifestyles of sin as sin, making no distinction about “levels”, why are we so easily outraged about a homosexual agenda being taught to our children, but we’re not bothered by the humanist agenda? Or by the immorality being taught in the health classes under the guise of “sex education”? Or by the other teachings that oppose what we believe about God and truth? Let’s give no allowance to be called hypocrites. In my opinion, this is not a better reason to remove our children fro public schools; it’s just another one.
Obama has appointed Kevin Jennings as Assistant Deputy Secretary at the Department of Education. Kevin Jennings is the founder and head of the Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network (GLSEN). He is operating under the guise of promoting “safe schools”, where he claims his agenda is to protect children from harassment regardless of their sexual orientation.
But if there are any doubts about how this agenda is promoted, in a nutshell, they try to inundate people (read in this case “students”) with the language, expressions and familiarity of the homosexual lifestyle to “break down barriers” placed by “prejudice and ignorance”. That’s their version and Jennings admits that “the affirmation of the lifestyle equals ’safety’ “.
It should be noted, that in order to desensitize children to the homosexual lifestyle, they have to be desensitized to immorality altogether. You can’t convince children that homosexuality is OK, until you first convince them that sex–in any form–is OK (it’s happening in Britain schools). Folks, in case you didn’t know, we are witnessing a time in history when you are called “ignorant” for teaching your children that sex before marriage is wrong. Or that virtually anything is wrong, for that matter. There is no wrong; only choices. And the state plans to “set right” that ignorant brainwashing by teaching your children otherwise. I’m not being hyper, I promise. Ultimately, the religion of tolerance (America’s religion of choice) forces the state to keep pushing back anything established as *wrong*. After all, being wrong may hurt my feelings.
If you feel brave enough to investigate what kind of sick, disgusting things are being taught at the GLSEN conferences (the group Jennings heads up), it may help you to understand that I’m not being an alarmist. But I will warn you that what I read from a Massachusetts’ conference (my audio didn’t work) is jaw-dropping explicit–bordering sadism. The conferences receive federal funding, are supported by the Dept. of Education and have students as young as 14 in attendance.
Here are a few details about Jennings and his network:
” The group’s target has been to place these clubs (GLSEN) in all U.S. schools, K through 12.”
In a speech in a New York church in 2000…
“Twenty percent of people are hard-core fair-minded [pro-homosexual] people. Twenty percent are hard-core [anti-homosexual] bigots. We need to ignore the hard-core bigots, get more of the hard-core fair-minded people to speak up, and we’ll pull that 60 percent [of people in the middle] over to our side. That’s really what I think our strategy has to be. We have to quit being afraid of the religious right. We also have to quit — I’m trying to find a way to say this. I’m trying not to say, ‘[F—] ‘em!’ which is what I want to say, because I don’t care what they think! [audience laughter] Drop dead!” — Jennings speech to Marble Collegiate Church, March 20, 2000.
(How’s that for irony…one of his “safe schools” tactics was to declare a no-name-calling week. He has been hired to promote respect and kindness for all. Do you really think that is his aim?)
At a GLSEN conference, Jennings told his fellow gay teachers that they must teach kids to accept homosexuality “before the children have a chance to be prejudiced by their parents and churches.”
Related posts:
Tags: political, public school
christian living, family/parenting, homeschooling, political, public school | Word Warrior | 
September 10, 2009 1:47 pm
Subscribe
Thank you for having the courage to post on this subject, Mrs. Kelly. The homosexual agenda has long been infiltrating the public school system. I especially appreciated your disclaimer at the beginning; no doubt you’ve cut off a lot of fruitless debate by taking a stand.
This really doesnt scare me. I think the main agenda here isnt to ‘promote homosexuality’, it is that they want to be treated and respected like any other human being. For Jennings to say we must ‘affirm’ it, just means to acknowledge that homosexuality is happening, and it isnt going away, so just accept it for what it is.
I will not operate out of fear and get sidetracked by happenings. It is what it is, and we can still stand for *good* things, without incessantly worrying about the future of our nation. Live, and let live. Staying tuned to our own lives, and allowing others who want o part of it, to have no part of it, is their free will given by God.
I do also know for a fact, that there have been many documneted cases of homosexual kids being bullied in school, etc. And that really isnt fair, now is it? Some may not agree with my choice to have my children in public school, but if my child were bullied in public school, and christians shrugged it off as my due fare for placing my chuildren in school, I would find that harsh.
IMO, people who pratice homosexuality are just sick and tired of being told they cant live the way they want to. Their very conscience before God *tells* them that this is wrong-and they know deep down they have free will…so they contest anything that goes against their right to live as they wish! To top it off, they hear stories of hypocrisy of Christians who play with porn, commit infidelity, etc. It is no wonder they get annoyed at the confusion out there…..
Just my opinion.
The audacity of the left is stunning – I think they’re counting on us being stunned into silence.
WW, I suspect my thoughts on the matter align with yours fairly closely – my objection, first and foremost, is the abject over-sexualizaton of our children, and the promotion of children engaging in dangerous behavior by the public school system – whether someone is “straight” or “gay” or whatever is hardly appropriate conversation for a school classroom, and selling an “enlightened” point of view in order to normalize age-inappropriate behavior is no less than child abuse. Teenagers are children – just because some of the parts have kicked in doesn’t mean their brains have – and their innocence should be protected, not expolited by adults to promote their own questionable agendas.
Thank you for making this more widely known Kelly.
authentically me,
This is not about bullying children. None of us are *for* bullying children (which is why so many of us homeschool–children will be bullied, if not for sexual orientation, for the color of their shirt. Bullying is the least of safety problems when we’ve got metal detectors at the doors.)
This is a direct attempt to promote the homosexual agenda, and even bigger, to eradicate all vestiges of Christianity or traditional moral values.
But your blase approach bothers me a bit as you claim to be a Christian….”Live and let live” is not the theme I see running through Scripture as it applies to raising our children, determining who will teach them (“and a student, when he is fully grown, will be like his teacher”), etc.
We’re talking about things that God himself spoke as ABOMINATIONS. I can’t imagine the prophet Jeremiah, going into the nations where immorality was rampant (especially where it was affecting their children), saying, “Ah…just live and let live…it’ll all come out in the wash.”
That’s just not what we’re called to. (I seem to remember something like “sackcloth and ashes”). If this kind of thing doesn’t bother the child of God, there is something amiss.
Thank you so much for posting on this. It’s something I’ve been following for a while. I do have one brief question, though, if I may:
What would you do/how would you respond of a child of yours came home one day and said, “Mom, I’m gay,” or “Mom, I’m a lesbian”?
That’s where I get jumbled. Because how could I call my child an abomination? (I don’t have children yet, and I’m studying Scripture – but you are far wiser than I am, and I would love to hear your thoughts.)
While I’m not advocating a “gay agenda” by any means, I will say that Jennings has a legitimate desire to promote safety for gay students–even those not living a gay lifestyle but who are simply SUSPECTED of being gay. I went to a magnet public high school for the arts. There, it was safe to “come out”, which usually did NOT include any relationship at all, just an acknowledgement of who you were. In a very conservative public school across the county, one of my dear friends was beaten with hockey sticks at the end of every gym class because he was gay. The teachers did nothing. He became suicidal, ran away from home for a number of years (he lived in my home for part of that time), and is still struggling with the scars of those years in school.
In general, I don’t like PC agendas. For example, the current PC approach to racial harmony in the schools doesn’t work. Pretending that everyone is the same, regardless of culture is just trying to whitewash our differences, denying our uniqueness. When we are taught to celebrate “being black” (whether or not we’re black) or “being Hispanic” (whether or not we’re Hispanic)–and no one ever celebrates being white, we are still focusing on the culture, rather than the human being. The only path to true racial harmony is to accept and celebrate the dignity and sanctity of each human life. Only then can we recognize humanity across cultural boundaries and differences.
I think the agenda of men and women like Jennings is similar to the PC approach to race. They think the only way to celebrate a gay person is to celebrate homosexuality. I disagree. The way to celebrate ANY person is to recognize and affirm that they are a unique, special creation of God, made in His image, endowed with dignity.
So, do I approve an agenda that encourages our kids to say that “anything goes”? No. But, I will say this with Jennings: THE ABUSE HAS GOT TO STOP!!!!
It is very real. The gay rights movement is the new civil rights movement. People are being beaten. People are being killed. This bigotry has got to end. As Christians, we must affirm the sanctity of all human life. That doesn’t mean we have to support every lifestyle, but it does mean we support every human because every human is made in the image of God.
Anne,
My first response is to say I’d treat it like any other “abomination” (immorality), and pray and counsel them in the same way. But it is very hard to say, hypothetically, though I have thought of it before.
Bethany,
As Christians, it is a given that we oppose violence. To that end, I’m not opposing any efforts made by the educational system at all. I think there is a much broader agenda though, which is to erase any distinctions between what is moral and what is not.
AND, keep in mind, I’m simply urging Christians to consider if this is the teaching (tolerance meaning “everything is OK) they want for their children. We teach love. But we also teach right and wrong.
Thank you for sharing this. I have children in PS (DH refuses to allow me to HS even though I am a teacher – a long story for another time ) – so of course this bothers me. We have a relative who is gay. I have told my children that this is a sin – BUT I think in God’s eyes sin is sin; so I do not dwell on this person being gay as any worse than my children being disobedient or me being lazy or lying.
The problem is: would parents be okay with schools teaching that lying, stealing, killing, etc is fine – it is a “choice”? To me it is the same.
Schools should have zero tolerance of any kind of harrassment – NOT teach that sinful lifestyles are OK. Leave these issues out of school entirely and go back to EDUCATING the children on the “3 R’s”
BTW I totally agree with Bethany that we should discourage the abuse/harrassment of gays – of ALL people. We are all sinners. BUT I don’t want schools telling my kids that sinning is a good choice to make either.
I ask you all to please keep me in your prayers that my DH will yield and allow me to bring my kids back home! THANK YOU
)
Kelly,
Thank you again so much for sharing with your readers!
Trust me ladies, the things this man promotes is not ANYTHING you want near your children.
A few notes: Like Kelly said, no one is pro-bulling. But the safety programs this man proposes doesn’t protect children from bulling AT ALL! He also openly admitted that “safety” was a political buzz word he is using to push his pro-gay agenda. This man wants children in Elementary school to be taught pro-gay sentiments! I encourage everyone to please research how terrible this man is!
We all know bullying of ALL types MUST be stopped.Violence in schools and else were needs to stop. No one disputes that.
Anne: I have family and friends who are “gay.” The bible says we all have our own struggles and convictions. Some struggle with Alcohol, and there is a genetic link in this, some drug addiction or gambling, and again a genetic link is frequently evident. I feel homosexuality is the same. Does this genetic link that makes us “born this way” make the sin ok? NO! It just means we all have different struggles. People with a certain burden to a certain sin must turn away from this sin and choose to not live this life style. I know many who have gay inclinations, and choose to live a Christian lifestyle rather than living a gay lifestyle. They choose not to sin. In a situation in-which a family member is gay, you explain the Biblical view point. Explain this is a sin they will struggle with and have to ask God to help them overcome. Ask God to either give them a satisfying life of singleness or a heart for a life partner of the opposite sex. You handle it the same way you handle a friend or family member involved or struggling with any sin.
We can’t ignore sin. We can’t allow is to be taught as “ok” to our children in public schools. When the school tells them 5 days a week for 8 hours that sin is ok, what good does one day at church and a few hours of family time going to do to change their mind!??!?
Yet Another Great reason to homeshchool!! And another reason why I am opening my door to help homeschool children who’s mothers MUST work and can’t be home to school the children!
How much worse could public school get!?!
Please take action to protect our children and our friends children from this man and further more the ideas he enforces!
Also this shows need to become active in your Govt. to protect your right to homeschool and to religion!
Thanks Again Kelly!
Tawny
Yes, I didn’t think you were going to publish any actual facts. You’d prefer to spread propaganda. I’m just disgusted with that attitude. At least LOOK at other viewpoints.
Is that what you teach your children?
Kelly- I certainly wasn’t implying anything about your own pov. I’m so sorry if you thought that. Of course, I know that you oppose violence and bullying. Maybe I should have clarified?
I also agree that the agenda is broader. I have just witnessed so much hatred, anger, ignorant fear, hate mongering, and harassment from professed Christians on this issue that it is a sore subject with me. Besides, as you mentioned, I get kind of fed up with people making such a big deal over homosexuality and then let their teens go watch “Moulin Rouge” with not a word about premarital sex or prostitution. To me, that is hypocritical bigotry. Again, I know you don’t feel this way. Just saying what I see so often.
Anne- I agree with what Tawny said. I treat the issue of homosexuality among my loved ones just like I do other issues of immorality (cohabitation, divorce, etc.) Some other thoughts: We plan to give our kids a strong foundation of understanding their sexuality, particularly drawing on Pope John Paul II’s Theology of the Body. My faith (Catholicism) has always been very loving and understanding of its homosexual members while firmly and decidedly condemning the gay lifestyle. I think growing up in the Church would also help my children to understand the importance of rightly expressed sexuality, whatever their sexual orientation. It also helps, I think, that the celibate life is so strongly honored and celebrated in the Catholic faith for those among the faithful who are gay. They don’t feel like their somehow “missing out” on marriage–because marriage is not the sort of pinacle of life that it is in many Protestant circles. Furthermore, even married Catholics are called to celibacy (fidelity, no birth control, no masturbation, no pornography, etc.), so it’s not unique to single people. I think having a place in the Church even if you are unmarried is so important in helping gay believers with their self-esteem and giving them a place they can feel welcomed and useful in the Body of Christ.
Tawny – You are right on
I agree with 100% of your comment. We all struggle but who would ever say alcoholism is a valid “choice”? One can still be compassionate toward – or sympathize with – the struggles of others without promoting them as positive and basically writing them off as no big deal.
Well said!
Bethany–no problem. I knew what you were saying, just wanted to clarify that I believe the agenda is broader since many will not look past the proposed safety issue.
Lily,
There was no propaganda. It was quotes (and there is audio available), as well as my own observation of the underlying agenda that has been in place for years.
If you want to know why I didn’t publish your comment, your “facts” involved a woman’s testimony of Jennings stating, “I have met few people as deeply Christian”.
There is no debate. I believe homosexuality is an abomination to God. I don’t, therefore believe that a practicing homosexual can also be a Christian. We are operating from two completely different world views, and therefore, there is no point arguing. I will not engage in what Jasmine called, “fruitless debate”.
This post has nothing to do with whether Jennings is a “nice man”. He may be; it has to do with propagating immorality in the school system. I have felt the same for years over other issues, not just this one. Jennings would love to see his lifestyle of choice “accepted”. As a Christian, I believe adamantly that it is wrong. That is fact. And that IS how I teach my children.
I just wanted to let you know that I have really enjoyed all your posts on homeschooling lately, and I linked to this one (it’s under the words “while most of their education wasn’t” toward the bottom in my post “Homeschooling Vs. Public Schooling–My Journey, part 4″). I really appreciate your stance on these issues.
Blessings to you!
Appreciate knowing about Kevin Jennings being appointed to Department of Education in charge of ‘Safe School’ Programs.
My Dears, If a church knowingly placed a convicted child molester in charge of the church nursery and you knew this, would you place your innocent young children in the molester’s care???
So many are willing to sugar coat what sexual perversion is and what a sexual pervert is.
Young children are willing to trust adults, especially if they ARE KIND and NICE. A first grader will be told that there’s nothing wrong with sexual relationships with the same gender and this is how you put the “rubber” on to have safe sex…
It can be confusing to young children to be told by an authority figure that wrong is okay, just trust me…I’m the authority figure and why would I lie to you.
Jennings…Kelly, a big thank you for posting about this.
No is no and yes is yes.
~Deanna~
I have been thinking about this post all night!
I don’t believe that sexual lifestyles of any kind need to be taught in school to children. I do understand that the “intended goal” of this program is to accept homosexuals as individuals. However, how is young child going to be able to decifer between accepting the person verses accepting the lifestyle? It’s a dangerous “fine line” which I would prefer not to walk along.
I agree with what someone said – what needs to be taught is to accept people as human beings without violence and harassment. Teaching things in this manner keeps the subject of sexual orientation out of the picture.
Furthermore, I feel that homosexuality is a moral issue and not a diversity issue. There is already enough talk about sex and other inappropriate moral issues being taught or talked about in pubic schools. Homosexual lifestyles don’t need to be added to the already growing assorted madness of inappropriate public school topics.
I would like to end by saying that I am not anti-gay. I don’t believe in “gay bashing” and “bullying” or any other form of violence against homosexuals. No one has the right to perform abuse of any kind against another human being. However, morally, homosexuals are in the “wrong” because homosexuality is something that is disapproved by God. Therefore, as a Christian, how could I tolerate such teaching in any kind of school, be it public or private? I could not condone such practices.
I appreciate the stand against homosexuality, I’m just curious why you single this sin out, above all others, as one that you think one can’t be a Christian while involved in. After all, some Christians are murderers, commit fornication, adultery etc, why wouldn’t there be some that are homosexual? Homosexuality is wrong, and so are those other things, and there are some Christians that unfortunately do all those things.
Most people who oppose the practice of homosexuality also oppose those things, Mrs. W
At the moment, though, homosexuality has an in-your-face quality that is hard to ignore. I would certainly be screaming if a leader in the educational system developed a curriculum to teach children that adultery is OK. Actually, that’s yet another reason my kids are not in public school, because I absolutely do not trust America’s educational system when it comes to supporting the moral values that we teach our children. There has been *plenty* of outcry over curricula which appear to have the purpose of teaching children how to be sexually promiscuous, whether hetero- or homosexual.
I don’t believe for a moment that everyone who speaks out about homosexuality is a hypocrite who’s happy to let adultery and promiscuity slide.
Mrs. W.,
Perhaps you should read the post…I specifically made that point…
“And let me prod you to think about this…if we truly uphold all lifestyles of sin as sin, making no distinction about “levels”, why are we so easily outraged about a homosexual agenda being taught to our children, but we’re not bothered by the humanist agenda? Or by the immorality being taught in the health classes under the guise of “sex education”? Or by the other teachings that oppose what we believe about God and truth? Let’s give no allowance to be called hypocrites. In my opinion, this is not a better reason to remove our children fro public schools; it’s just another one.”
Have I not been talking about the “other sins” as a reason to remove children from the system?
Mrs. W.,
As far as Christians–
Yes, I believe a Christian can struggle with homo. just like any other sin. But to say I’ve “singled this sin out”? I talk about this issue less than any other. I didn’t “single it out”, I’m specifically addressing a major issue in the news of education.
Well, Bethany said it more concisely than I could have.
I never said anyone here was pro-bullying. I was simply saying that in that regard, Jennings has a point there. Like Bethany shared, some homosexual people have received such ill treatment and shame, that they turn suicidal.
The thing with homosexuality is that it deals with a persons sexual identity, and therfore people become very sensitive to it….and rightly so. We cannot fathom what a homosexual person goes through. Lying, cheating, etc are sins more common to man, but homosexuality is probably felt to be more ‘interweaved’ within the person themselves. Understanding can go a far way. I often wonder which came first-the bashing of homosexuals, or their loud ‘voice’ wanting to be heard, at all costs? It is something to consider.
I never said I was ‘for’ what the man is trying to push. I just dont get so up in arms; often people have ideas that never come to pass….we see it everyday. I am not so easily moved by another proclomation by yet another person trying to push their agenda.
Another reason I do not worry so much is, my children know who they trust. Just becasue someone is a school official does not mean my child will blindly trust them. I surmise that many children who turn from the faith do so because they do not feel they are 100% safe in the ideas of their parents. They are open to other ideas. Probably there are many reasons why a child is open to teaching from others. THAT is the real issue-the problems in the relationships of parents to children. I just had an issue at school last week, where the vice-principle, teachers, and guidance counselor all had to apologize to me, and 3 other students, and make it right. They are doing so, and were very compassionate. My daughter knew to come home and tell me what the problem was, and justice prevailed, becasue she trusted the gut of her mother. Sorry, I am going off on tangents…..
The “live and let live” comment isnt saying it is OK how some live. Moreso, i iust accept that sin happens, and I cannot choose for another individual how to live their life. I can only live MY OWN life. If it would come down to the wire that on a school district level, we are only steps away from promoting homosexuality as a valid choice, Id be at that meeting to share my opinions. But if it passed, I would not fret. Maybe some good would even come out of it. Maybe children would stop picking on homosexuals, and maybe gay people wouldnt feel so singled out….I dont know.
I know Old Testament isnt to be thrown out the window, but when Jesus came, we were not living under punishment any longer…we are to treat others that way, so they do not get swallowed up in their shame. I say that as a concession, becasue if you knew me in real life, I definitely confront people on things.
I know this…I am sure glad I am not homosexual. I cant imagine not feeling like this sin isnt elevated somehow above the others…..it must be very tough in America today, to be homosexual.
Kelly, in the comments you specifically singled out homosexuality as a sin you thought impossible to be committed by Christians, when we know Christians commit all other kinds of sins. Was just curious about the reasoning because I’ve heard the same off other people and it doesn’t make any sense. A Christian is capable of committing ANY sin, and some Christians do.
Dear Kelly,
This is a bit off subject, but I just wanted to let you know I recently read your birth story and I was impressed by your courage and honesty. I just wanted to encourage you that you are a very good mommy and God gets the glory when I think of you! Your blog is one of the few I take time to read.
Have a wonderful day,
Sherry–Large Family Mothering
Mrs. W.,
Nope, that’s not what I said. I said,
“I don’t, therefore believe that a practicing homosexual can also be a Christian.”
Just like I don’t believe a Christian will be in a “practicing lifestyle” of any immorality (i.e. cohabitation, etc.) I am making a distinction between “committing” sin and “living in sin”.
Sherry,
Thank you!
“So if you comment to blast me for “hating”, don’t. I’ll delete the comment because you’re incorrect. This is not the place to try to convince me that immorality should be accepted and taught to our children. You won’t.)”
what is the point in commenting then. anyone who disagrees with you you are going to delete. children should be exposed to all lifestyles. as for your homeschooling…why don’t you put your christian children in the school and let them make a difference instead of using blogs like this.
and students are not being “desensitized to immorality” they are being taught what you people are afraid to teach them…how to live in the world with people who are different from them.
Jared,
Our children already DO live in a world where people are different than them. They are taught that God is the ABSOLUTE MORAL AUTHORITY, that there are consequences for sin, that they are accountable to God first, then their parents whom God has given authority over them. They are taught how to have love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, and self control. They are taught that every person has value becuase they are created by God in His image. This is at odds with most of the world. Those of us who homeschool do so because we can give the authority over our children to someone else, but the responsibility will always be ours. We feel we are being good stewards with what God has given us. There will be a time when they will be light in the darkness. That time is not as impressionable little children, though.
You said “and students are not being ‘desensitized to immorality’ they are being taught what you people are afraid to teach them”
Because our authority and trust is God alone, ANY sin will always be taught…that it is wrong and has no place in the body of one who calls themself a Christ Follower. There is not a distinction. Lying is not permitted, nor is gossip, hatred, stealing, coveting, murder and certainly not the opinion that immorality in any form is acceptable.
Christians cannot continue to have it both ways. We cannot claim to be His and have fellowship with darkness. We will always love the person, as we are called to do, but we will never make someone feel OK about their sin. That has no part in the Body of Christ.
Jared,
I’ll be glad to answer that…”why don’t you put your christian children in the school and let them make a difference instead of using blogs like this.”
Because children aren’t ready to be missionaries–they are still being discipled themselves. That’s not rocket science.
I understand that a non-Christian doesn’t view things in terms of “moral or immoral”, but we do. That’s why we’ll never come to an understanding about this. (If I weren’t a Christian, I would understand your desire to be “accepted”. But my faith requires me to hold fast to a model of truth, good for all people. And so I believe that sexual immorality–any kind–is sin.) That’s just a fact. I am just as upset about the school system desenitizing our children to other immoralities.
Now, get what I’m about to say…(this could be a post all its own):
My children are taught absolute truth, that some lifestyles are immoral. BUT, because we are Christians, that teaching also includes loving and respecting all people. The teaching has been tried. We are up close and personal with all sorts of lifestyles (homosexual ones included). My parents (whom we live beside) run a home for older boys with every problem under the sun. My children relate to them just as they relate to anyone else, fully aware that they are living in sin.
That’s what the teaching of Scripture does. We don’t need “tolerance” programs to teach respect. We need the love of God.
Jared,
Respectfully, the Bible already teaches Christian children how to live in a world with people who are “different” from them (Matthew 28:19-21), and how to respond to “differences” which are sins (Romans 1:32), and it tells us who is responsible for teaching children these things (Deut. 6:6,7; Prov. 1:7; Eph. 6:4). Christian students who are sent into public schools are by definition being sent to be taught, not to be the teachers (Psalm 1; Rom. 12:1,2; 2 Cor. 6:14ff; Col. 2:8).
The way to live in a world with people who are different from us doesn’t have to be to accept lifestyles that are in blatant violation of his commandments. While we do understand that every human being was created in God’s image with inherent worth and dignity, we also understand that every human being struggles with sin that separates them from God. The response to that sin shouldn’t be to be blind acceptance *or* brutality that runs counter to the inherent dignity of God’s creation, but the love and the call to repentance from the gospel.
My parents have never been afraid to teach me about a lifestyle that differs from mine; nor have they been afraid to teach me the scriptural response to such a lifestyle. But because they realized that it was their responsibility -not someone else’s -to teach me about those lifestyles, they were able to protect me from over-exposure at too young an age, and to give me a strong biblical foundation for interacting with all sorts of people.
Kelly, did my comment get lost?
so when will your children be ready to be “missionaries”? and i also like the way you assume that i am a non-christian because i have different views.
AM–I don’t think so.
I think my main concern is not that people sin, because we all do, but when those people try to convince (brainwash) generation upon generation into believing something is not sin, when clearly it is. As for teaching our children and them not turning from our teaching, the numbers don’t support any argument that 14,000 hours of indoctrination by a secular school is good for the Kingdom, which should be our main concern.
Jared,
*I* didn’t assume it…Scripture teaches that one who lives a lifestyle of sin, refusing to turn from it (not necessarily a homosexual lifestyle, though that is included), is not a child of God. Christianity isn’t a brand that we can just label ourselves with. A Christian obeys Scripture and upholds the teaching therein.
“Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Just one more thought on homosexuality (mainly for Anne), I often liken the issue of homosexual love to that of someone falling in love with a person who is already married, or who has been divorced (in the Catholic Church, divorced persons may not remarry unless their marriage is annulled), or who is a consecrated religious (priest or nun).
It is often natural to become attracted to someone who is unavailable. Just because someone gets married doesn’t mean they become unattractive–just because we are married doesn’t mean we stop being attracted to people. But, we must keep a close watch on this and control such temptations. Similarly, someone may not even be able to help falling in love with such a person. Neither of these is a “sin” per se, since the person has not “done” anything to feel that love or attraction. But, such feelings can be dangerous and such temptations must be conquered–not because the temptation itself is a sin, but because the object of desire is off limits and to try to obtain it would be a sin.
Being gay is not a sin. And, it’s not something “dirty” or “wrong” like being an alcoholic or a gambler (comparisons that people often make). It’s an unfair comparison. Being gay does not mean having gay sex. Being an alcoholic means you have already been drunk and gotten addicted to alcohol. Being a gambler means that you have already gambled. However, homosexual orientation does bring with it a whole bevy of temptations that we are called, as Christians, not to submit to, and this is a very hard row to hoe.
Personally, I agree with AM that homosexual believers merit the greatest amount of sympathy and support that we can muster. We put so much effort into helping our teenagers stay chaste. Catholics like myself pray all the time for our priests and nuns in their lives of celibacy. Gay Christians deserve our prayers not our ridicule and rejection. Calling them perverts, comparing them to child molesters and gamblers and alcoholics is not encouragement. It tears them down; it doesn’t build them up. We need to build up all our brothers and sisters in Christ.
I apologize, Kelly, for getting off topic here, but I just wanted to offer that. I have a passionate heart for homosexuals, because I have seen so many lives get so screwed up because of ignorance, fear, and hatred of homosexuality, even among believers. I think it is so important, especially with the secular world spouting one agenda regarding homosexuality that Christians get with the program and start offering righteous, compassionate, loving help to the GLBT community.
***I think my main concern is not that people sin, because we all do, but when those people try to convince (brainwash) generation upon generation into believing something is not sin, when clearly it is. As for teaching our children and them not turning from our teaching, the numbers don’t support any argument that 14,000 hours of indoctrination by a secular school is good for the Kingdom, which should be our main concern.***
I agree with the first statment…brainwashing *is* different. I do think it is wise to make a distinction between behavior the person practices, and the person themselves. PEOPLE are to be respected or affirmed, but sometimes their BEHAVIOR is not (and even to be addressed). I see a difference there.
I suppose I do not look at the public school as harshly, and as ‘indoctrinating’ our kids….
Webster’s SECOND COLLEGE EDITION
NEW WORLD DICTIONARY OF THE AMERICAN LANGUAGE
has the definitions for
pervert,
perverted,
perverse,
and perversion.
As well as reprobate and abomination.
Abomination- great hatred and disgust; loathing
Many liberal minded humans don’t want to believe GOD and embrace His counsel.
The Book of Romans Chapter ONE is a great read about those that change the truth of GOD into a lie…
the cause that GOD gave them up unto vile affections…
reprobate minds…
Authenticallyme,
There was a time when I didn’t view the public school system so harshly. I still think a private secular education is just as wrong for covenant children. After MUCH research, I realized I was wrong before. I wish my parents had known how to raise children biblically and had never allowed me a secular education. MUCH heartache may have been avoided if I just had a biblical world view instead of a secular one.
Well said, Leslie – I think many of us share the same thoughts and experience.
Many liberals believe differently. So do many Hindus. You know?
What you are – bigots. Many Christians don’t want to believe in their BIGOTRY. But it’s there. Oh yes. It’s there.
I know you won’t publish this, Kelly. You have no desire to put any dissenting opinions up there because you have no desire to think.
Lily,
I’m sorry you’re angry. A “bigot” is one who “hates”. I don’t hate. There is no hatred whatsoever for those practicing immorality. (Just like there is no hatred for family members who have affairs, or sex before marriage, or whatever.) I can be against an “act” without being a bigot. God is the very essence of love. And yet He has created His universe with the laws and order that only He is allowed to do. We can argue with it all day, but it doesn’t change things. (“Does the pot argue with the potter?”) Homosexuality is just another expression of our need for a Savior.
I know men who struggle with pornography. I feel deep compassion for them and yet adamantly oppose their practice. It is possible to do both. And the day he starts trying to convince my children that his practice is normal, I will be highly upset. Just as I am now.
Since there is zero evidence that the “gay agenda” includes “sex anytime anywhere” or lying, cheating, stealing, coveting your neighbor’s wife or breaking any of the other ten commandments I think WW is seriously overstating her case to make the whole thing much, much, scarier to her readers than it is.
I’d also like to point out that despite the way the phrase “the left” is thrown around here there are of course, and always have been, conservative gay people and conservatives have gay children. I’m not sure why those conservative gay people deserve to be harrassed and damned at school any more than any other person does–even non christian people! I know its very hard to accept but Public Schools exist to serve the public. The whole public. Not muslims, not christians, not jews, not only straight people, not only nice people, not only kids who get straight A’s and not only kids with ADHD. It has to serve all of them. If a school finds that the kids there have special needs it has a duty *to the public* to serve those kids needs. Its not a plot against Christians anymore than having a *peanut free table* is a plot against people who can eat peanut butter.
aimai
Wow, Lily – interestingly you’re the only one here who’s name calling and exhibiting hostility towards others because of their beliefs.
If you were being intellectually honest, you would come right out and say that everyone should agree with you, because there’s no room for diversity of thought when you’re truly “open minded”. It’s the sad trap that is the illusion of inclusion on the radical left. Politically correct religious bigotry. Nice.
Lucky for all of us, grace abounds. Peace.
aimai,
Oh how I wish you were right. Unfortunately there is evidence galore. Starting with actual curriculum guides and bibliographies submitted by the GLSEN and approved by several public schools already (for the elementary classrooms). The recommended reading on these lists not only include the above mentioned things (sex anywhere, adultery, etc.) but also include illegal statutory offenses (not recognized as such in the book), cross-dressing and a host of other unmentionables.
Let me restate in case you missed it: I am NOT against children being protected from being bullied or harassed. (Bad news though…when you remove God and the abiding standards which are enveloped in love and respect for people, the result is children being bullied for everything under the sun. They will always bully for something until you teach them the love of Christ.)
It’s ridiculous to insinuate that I am against safety. But “safety”, while there may be some legitimate attention to be given, is just a Trojan horse here. The evidence is speaking, not me.
Lily,
I am certainly am not a bigot! I have only compassion in my heart for the individuals who are struggling. I have a little less for individuals who are justifying sin and trying to legitimize it. You might want to do a little historical research on the arguments against public education and also on Karl Marx. You might be surprised to find that many of the reasons given against a government run education system have come to fruition.
I think it is a little naive for us to believe there is no agenda when CLEARLY there is.
Also, one of my desires is for people struggling with homosexuality to have a place to turn where they can be counseled biblically, instead of being fed a “crock”. MY agenda is to see as many people as possible come to know the Lord and sin comes between us and Him. So of course, I don’t want to LIE to anyone and tell them that something is not a sin, when God has clearly said it was.
Deanna…..I do not see how it is speaking the truth in love to term someone a ‘pervert’. In America, today, to label or call someone a pervert would be an unloving thing. In a sense, we are all perverted then, arent we?
I knew people, as children, who gave clues back then (age 9 or 10) that they were homosexual. Is it ok to call them perverts? I do not see how this could be profitable or edifying to anyone.
Leslie-I know what you are saying. I did homeschool for my chidlren for several years, but they are now in public school. All I mean is that (and I am not saying you are saying this…) I do not take it well when some state that I do not take my calling before God seriously (or am somehow otherwise blinded)because I allow my children in a public school setting. It is downright insulting, on a number of planes (again, I know you did not say this…)
“In America, today, to label or call someone a pervert would be an unloving thing.”
It is does not matter if it is in America or Timbuktu, today or 1000 years ago, SIN IS SIN. God’s Word is for all time. He never changes we do.
If someone takes something good and uses it for evil, then it is appropriate to use the word pervert!
Perhaps the the phrase “live and let live” should be more accurately called, “sin and let sin”.
How can we possibly “love our neighbor” if we do not stand for Truth? That would be loving them into hell.
But back to the topic, Christians that have their children public school should be making their voices heard. As long as the silent majority keep silent the wicked will rule.
I totally agree with you Kelly. Unfortunately my husband is not a Christian so our 2 children have gone to public school. Thankfully we live in a rural area with a very small school so not much of this PC garbage has gotten here.
I really cannot understand how people who are not Christians, read this blog and then argue. You are obviously a Bible believing Christian who follows what the Bible teaches and if people don’t like that then find other blogs to read.
am,
Once again, my argument is not against public school only, but against secular education, whether public or private. The only reason I would encourage Christians to make sure that their children have a Christian education is not because of MY opinion, but because of the bible. I believe in the sufficiency of scripture and the inerrant word of God and so I must follow all that I know it says and encourage others to do the same. Once again, not coming from a judgmental or holier than thou place, but a place of love and concern for the next generation of Christians. Hopefully many of them will not have to make the mistakes that I did because of my world view, which I did not choose, because I had only been exposed to a secular world view. Sunday school and Wednesday night church, talking about God’s love, did not instill the biblical world view I now wish I had.
Goodnight everyone!
It is hard to call ’sin a sin’ when the vast majority do not view the world with Godly wisdom. To say it is unloving to stand by Christian convictions regarding immorality of any state is missing the point.
No one listens to the truth unless love is included – and it isn’t love unless truth is included. They go hand-in-hand.
Kelly,
Wow! I read your website earlier, but didn’t have a chance to post a comment (I was crazy busy getting ready for the baby today).
I’ve just come back and–wow! Over fifty responses! And some of them? Uhm, did these folks bother to even read the explanation you said at the beginning of the post??????
Anyhow, I think if there was ever a time when as Christians we need to pray for each other, this is the time. The world is truly battering down on people who are trying to hold onto the truth the God is Sovereign, and that His law is law, and that what He calls an abomination is an abomination. We need to pray for each others strength to get through this time of temptation.
I haven’t read all of the posts, but someone asked if a family member decided that they were “gay” whether we’d call them an abomination. Well, if they stole money out of your purse would you call them a thief? If they killed someone in cold blood would you call them a murderer? If they went around completely lit-up with alcohol and got in a car to drive away, would you say they were drunk?
Dear Kelly,
When you get so many comments on a post its easy to sit back sit back and not add my voice because I’m just reading the back and forth debate. I’ve been convicted though that you deserve to hear another sister in agreement with you.
I can feel your heart in the post and I appreciate your love for sinners and your hatred of sin. That’s having the mind (and heart) of Christ. Thank you for the encouragement to be bold AND loving. You rock!
‘At a GLSEN conference, Jennings told his fellow gay teachers that they must teach kids to accept homosexuality “before the children have a chance to be prejudiced by their parents and churches.”’
I think this says it all. God has sent my children to ME and THEIR FATHER – NOT Kevin Jennings or the state or anyone else. Our children are being taken in so many ways, simply by subtle influences in the culture; yet here is someone openly stating that another person/entity SHOULD have more control over children than their parents. Very scary stuff – regardless if the topic is homosexuality or something else.
Liz,
Heartily agreed…if Christians aren’t bothered by statements like these (as you said, having nothing to do with homosexuality–just the desire to control our children’s worldview), I don’t think anything will get through.
Whitney,
Thank you so much.
KB,
“Uhm, did these folks bother to even read the explanation you said at the beginning of the post??????”
You don’t even get to read the comments that are too hateful to post
Let me just say that this blog has revealed, clearer than anything in my life, how true Scripture is when it says you will be hated by the world.
Oh, Kelly. As a fellow blogger, I really feel for you. Sometimes it can be so hard. I just wanted to say that I really hope you didn’t think I was dissenting. Personally, I have never tackled homosexuality on my blog, partially because I have so many gay friends and would never wish them to feel unwelcome by some of the comments that I’m sure would crop up. I admire you for doing this, for doing it in a loving way. I considered the comments I wrote to be merely an extension of the conversation you began, not an attack on what you had written. I think this was a very well-done post. Keep it up!
Bethany,
Thank you
No dissenting felt. At all. Tricky subject, to say the least, and yet one that, more than anything, makes it a little more clear how the school system has reached way beyond teaching academics into trying to shape the world view of our children–that has been the thrust of my point all along. Since you are from the Washington area (Seattle, right?), thought you may find this interesting/disheartening…
http://www.seattleschools.org/area/fam/glbtq/elem_biblio.pdf
OK, I for one, do not hate Kelly. I read the opening statement, and understood. I was simply presenting how *I* deal with these things.
Liz-YES, if this man is doing like you said, I agree….he is not permitted to try and deliberately get sa ‘hold’ of our children before the parents…..
I do not really think any of us take beatings more than others. At times, all of us undergo battles against the world, people, and sin. Its part of the life and sacrficie of being a christian.
And the final point I’d like to make is that YES, I would not point blank call a person a drunk, pervert, or such. It does not show a willingness to help, or come alongside. To say “you drink too much”, or “what you are doing is wrong” sounds much better, and that is not to NOT hurt someone’s feelings, it is to say the truth in a muted manner that still gets the point across. I will be more vulnerable with a person who says, “you are doing wrong to yourself, to man, and to God” than someone who tells me “You *are* an abomination”. I do not see why this is so difficult to grasp….We can hate wrongdoing and still love the person, and have compassion on them. Which one of us here never grieves deeply over our own sin, but yet gets up and does it again the next day?
Let’s get this straight- homosexuality is a sin against the body, against procreation of mankind, and a blatant statement of rejecting and perverting the gospel. It is in direct opposition to the heterosexual marriage which is a living picture of Christ’s relationship with his bride. Men with men and women with women– grossly offensive to God in ways that most us do not fully understand. Homosexuality preaches against the gospel. This is an abomination to Him and His plan for redemption, and He made it abundantly clear to stay away!
I am amazed by Christians who rationalize their partnership with this pro-tolerance agenda. If we simply wink and tolerate this behavior among our friends and family, it is a clear sign that we do not love them. I would not want anyone that I love to be separated from our Creator and in direct opposition to Him. These people are confused– GOD DID NOT MAKE THEM THIS WAY!!
It is important to keep perspective that it is not God who separates Himself from this practice, rather it is this sinful practice that separates man from God. Just so, if we are truly Christians, meaning we are new creatures IN CHRIST, than this practice is too offensive to our new nature to look upon. We have no other choice, but to live apart from this. I know for a fact that there are many wonderful and fun people who claim to be homosexuals, but the truth stands– if they live a life against God then they are against me too, and I grieve the wall THEY place on our relationship. We love the person, yet hate the sin that separates us.
Out of obedience to the Word of God, I simply cannot be associated or partnered with them, nor under their authority in any way. (If I had a child in the PS, this man would be in authority over my child as he can and will be making decisions affecting my child. This is just the fact of the matter.)
I mean… when reading the Scriptures, could it not be any more clear that God wants us to run away from this stuff?!? I don’t understand the reason for the debate. Kelly has merely posted information so that we, as believers, can make wise choices. Thanks, Kelly for bringing this to our awareness. I pray that we have the courage and determination to act.
Misty- I disagree with you when you say that God did not make gay people gay. God formed us completely within our mother’s wombs. There are people who are born gay. Period. All evidence points to that. Not just scientific evidence. I cannot tell you how many people I know who tried not to be gay, who tried to convince themselves they were straight–many because they were believers and thought there was no way they could remain Christians if they admitted who they truly were. Some even married and had children, but eventually the truth will out. Every once in awhile, you will meet a gay person who “became gay” because of sexual abuse or something similar in their past, but it is very rare. In most cases, gay people are born gay. Whether this is the result of a curse, as many Christians claim, I do not know. All I know is that no amount of psychology or boot camp is going to “set them straight.” This was the agenda (even secularly) for decades, and it did not work. Because it will not work. Because sexuality is ingrained in our psyche and is genetically determined.
Are homosexuals today confused? I’m sure many would confess that they are–but not about being gay. They are often confused about whether or not they are gay for a time before they come out. Many are also confused about how to live as a gay person in a straight world. Christian gays, especially, are confused about how to remain faithful to Christ while remaining honest with themselves and those around them.
The Church has a solid, compassionate, biblical stance for such men and women: to know themselves and to remain chaste. This is a message that gay people need to LOVINGLY and COMPASSIONATELY be presented with, a message that is all too often bogged down in self-righteous bigotry and ignorance. These people have a difficult struggle in their sexuality, and they deserve better than what many within the Church are offering them. Is it any wonder that they turn to the secular world? It’s not just because the secular world is saying live and let live–it’s because in the secular world they are seeing people who are affirming their dignity as human beings rather than viewing them as some sort of mentally deranged, sex-crazed, wicked maniacs simply for being born the way that they are.
Let’s keep things clear: BEING gay is not a sin, and it is genetically ingrained in a person from conception. PRACTICING a homosexual lifestyle IS a sin, and is an abomination to God. There is a difference–an important difference–THE difference that is going to help the Church reach out, embrace, and win the souls of homosexuals today.
That’s beautifully put, Bethany. But think about this. If God created someone in this way, isn’t it the height of cruelty to ask them to remain chaste forever? I think it is. It’s terribly cruel. All of you get to have partners and children and rich lives. But – because of how someone was created – they do not? Really?
I don’t see this as loving and supportive at all. And I’m straight!
Kelly, I truly enjoy your blog. The variety of information you share is eye opening and thought provoking. I am very thankful that you are a Christian with your faith foundation standing firmly on the rock of JESUS and the Holy Scriptures. You’re ministry is an inspiration. God Bless you real good.
As for Misty’s comment…AMEN!!!!!!
Kelly, I truly enjoy your blog. The variety of information you share is eye opening and thought provoking. I am very thankful that you are a Christian with your faith foundation standing firmly on the rock of JESUS and the Holy Scriptures. You’re ministry is an inspiration. God Bless you real good.
As for Misty’s comment…AMEN!!!!!!
I can’t find a single news article about this online anywhere. Even a search for “Kevin Jennings” brings up nothing. Can you share a link?
Bethany,
I have a couple of questions about your last comment. I don’t understand the being born gay but being able to marry. I was born heterosexual and cannot IMAGINE being able to pretend pleasure with the same sex, especially as men have a harder time pretending. Also, I wanted to ask about some of the successes groups have had such as the exodus group. Is there ministry completely ineffective or is part of the problem that some people may not WANT to let go of that sin?
Also, there is a theory that some people who think they are gay are really narcissistic and that their attraction to themselves convinces them of their attraction to the same sex.
So my point is, that maybe what we might think of as being gay, could be other things.
And, one final comment of a anecdotal nature. I have a friend whose son has come out. This child was always a little sensitive and artistic. I often worried that he was getting pushed into the gay lifestyle because that is the only place he could really find acceptance. He didn’t fit in a school, and even the kids at church were mean.
Deanna,
Thanks a bunch!
Lori Ann,
Hmmmm….lots of articles come up when I search for his name. Add “GLSEN” or Obama appointed, or public school, or safe school programs. If you still don’t find them, I’ll provide some links. I’m in a hurry this morning!
Lisa- I don’t think it’s cruel. Everyone is called to chastity. Some people are blessed to express their chastity in a God-ordained marriage, which includes godly sex. Some people are called to the single life (which may include homosexuals) and some people are called to the consecrated religious life (which may also include homosexuals). In Catholicism, we recognize that the single life (whether laiety or consecrated) can be a difficult one, but it is also a very admirable and holy one–St. Paul tells us so in his epistles. It is a life that Paul himself was called to. It is the life that JESUS himself was called to! What could be cruel about that?
Leslie- I cannot imagine it either, but I can tell you that I personally know three people (all men, incidentally) who have had just this issue.
The narcissism issue is founded in certain rarer cases (I do know one young woman who had this issue in high school and worked through it to find her authentic sexuality, which is hetero). On the whole, however, I would say it is rare. My heterosexual grandfather was a diagnosed narcissist, and I know what narcissism looks like. Most of the gay people I know would not be classified as narcissists.
As for your friend’s artist son, I would not think that someone would “become gay” to be an artist. I am a trained actress. In my class of 18, we had one student who was bisexual (a female) and two gay professors (one male, one female). Everyone else was heterosexual, including five other male professors and all 8 male students. I also attended a high school for the arts, and I only had a handful of friends who were gay there. It was easier to “come out” at this school, certainly, because the students were more likely to be accepted for who they were, but no one was pressured to become gay, and they were surrounded by hundreds of other artists who were straight. Straight men are very much accepted in the artistic world. There is no reason I can think of that an artistic man would feel the need to be gay.
So those are my thoughts. There ARE instances (I’m not denying it) where homosexuality may, in fact, be something else. From my personal life, I can say that anyone I know who had such psychological issues (and I only know three such people) came to an awareness of them after a time (sometimes with, sometimes without sexual experimentation). Having psychological confusion about our sexuality is not relegated to gays (think about all the young women who are throwing themselves at every Tom, Dick, and Harry–this is not natural or healthy, either). ALL gay people that I know attempted to be straight for a time. Some had sex with members of the opposite gender. Some were even married with children. NONE of them WANTED to be gay. NONE. Can I repeat that: NONE of them WANTED to be gay. In fact, each and every one DESPERATELY wanted to be straight, because they knew their life as a homosexual (whether they were chaste or not) would be a difficult one. There is nothing that would have induced these people to come out unless they knew with certainty that this was an unchangeable part of their psyche. Apart from that, all neuroscientific research on homosexuality leads us to understand that homosexuality (true homosexuality, as opposed to a psychological distortion from sexual abuse or what have you) is genetically predetermined. There is a reason it runs in families, a reason that twins with a gay twin are astronomically more likely to be gay themselves. Is this a genetically inheritted curse (Scripture speaks of such things), I do not know. Some of us are born with a “cancer” gene. I do not know why. But, God does. And, He is loving, not cruel.
Good post Kelly…and good commenting on the way far off bunny trails.
Bethany- to say that people are born gay, that GOD formed them this way in the womb, and that ALL evidence proves this– what a statement!
Yes, God made us In the womb, but do not leave out the best part– He made us “fearfully and wonderfully”. Genesis 2 describe in more detail what that means:
God did not create homosexuals!! How do we know?
Because he said it!! Gen. 2 clearly teaches that God made male and female, and he made them to compliment each other. It teaches that he instituted marriage between and man and a woman. This was His intention for us from the moment we were formed.
Our biological design proves it!! Our complimentary structures, being formed in the womb, prove that we are heterosexuals by design.
God commands us to “be fruitful and multiply”, which is a task that cannot be performed by homosexuals. He would not command us to do something without giving us the proper equipment and ability.
It causes harm!! It is disease prone!! Homosexuals live 8-20 years less than heterosexuals.
Race and gender describe what a person is, while homosexuality relates to what a person does or his/her sinful tendancy.
Not only can we boldly claim that He did not create homosexuality, but He says homosexuality is the opposite of what He created in the womb. See it hear clearly in Romans 1:26,27- ‘For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another …’ Homosexuality is unnatural!!
Statistics are overwehelming that the vast majority of homosexuals have been sexually abused. Healing from this hurt is where we as Christians should focus our compassion, prayers and concerns.
I know a family that had only 2 daughters, both became lesbians. For along time they denied any past sexual abuse leaving others to believe it was in their DNA. Finally, the truth came out that they were in fact abused as young girls. Very sad. But again God did not create them this way, but rather this is a behavior born out of bitterness.
The rest who were not abused are misled by peer pressure. I have a friend who was on the Woman’s PGA tour where lesbianism is rampant. She says that those women were content heterosexuals before they made it to the tour, but the peer pressure to adopt this lifestyle came at them surprisingly hard and by talented golfers whom they looked up to and wanted to emulate. As a Christian, she was among the few that resisted this temptation though she does admit that she was tempted and that it is very real. Christ says that He delivers us from temptation. He has created and equipped us with every tool that we need to fulfill our sole purpose, which is to glorify Him and enjoy Him forever.
What He makes is wonderful and perfect. We are the ones who distort and pervert, then we make excuses or pass blame.
Respectfully, Misty
Thank you Kelly for this post and enlightening us as to what’s happening in our schools. My husband had a boss that was lesbian…she was mean to him at first because she knew he was a Christian, but he never threw things in her face, he just prayed that somehow he would be an example. She eventually eased up and respected him. Now she is a Christian who loves the Lord, has left that lifestyle and is leading a bible study in her home. Her countenance looks completely different. She used to look worn out, mad, dirty and now she is a beautiful young lady with a very joyful countenance. It’s the Lord! I don’t believe people are born gay. Why would the Lord fearfully and wonderfully make someone gay and then tell them that being gay is an abomination to the Lord. That would be like saying I was born a prostitute or one that likes to have affairs. Let’s just put it plainly….IT’S ALL SIN! Any kind of sexual immorality is sin. If one has a tendancy to lean towards homosexuality, then they need to take that struggle to the Lord and pray hard. Just like someone that is struggling with porn, they need to flee from it, turn completely away, give that struggle to the Lord, surround yourself with people that will keep you accountable. Any sin, if we are practicing it and not hating the sin then can we call outselves a christian?
One more thing, I don’t believe practicing homosexuals, or anyone who is practicing anything that is immoral can be Christians. The same application goes to those who constantly gossip, divide and tear others down. When God transforms a person, “the old has passed away, behold, all things are new”. When God says that “we are created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God has prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them”. Those good works do not include practicing homosexuals or lesbians, nor does it include adulterers or the immoral, nor the gossips. I’m not saying that Christians don’t fall, but our lifestyle should not be indicative of a heathen.
Leslie – I say this respectfully, but do you really think that it’s easy to be gay? Do you think someone would CHOOSE it? To be berated in the way that gay people are? To make life a lot harder? Seriously?
“Also, there is a theory that some people who think they are gay are really narcissistic and that their attraction to themselves convinces them of their attraction to the same sex.”
That’s kind of funny. Because you already said that there’s no way that a man could pretend, and G-d knows that I’ve met narcissitic straight men. Hah. I think gay is just…gay.
It’s funny – for every other practice of sin, there are a million rationalizations that are seen for what they are. I don’t understand why homosexuality – and the “I was born this way” rationalization – is elevated to acceptance for this particular lack.
Even if we set aside the “vice” sins that involve addiction, which is really just an exaggerated reliance on something other than God, and the flesh follows (over simplified, I realize, but the logic holds)…aren’t we just rationalizing a failure of the flesh?
If I am “born” lazy – which I was, that’s why I chose that example – I fight to overcome slothfulness DAILY – I don’t accept that “I was meant to be a sloth”. Surely if I said – oh, forget it, this is just my nature (key word), then am I not “living in sin”? I cannot agree that “being gay”, continuing in that identity, is the same as temptation – it’s choosing to live walking the line, inviting temptation, and that IS a sin. Merely “adjusting” to my sinful nature is not the same as turning away from it. I have to deliberately seek the truth.
There are bigger issues to consider than will my gay friends still like me if I stand up for what God says on the subject – I guess I have arrived at the decision that “being liked” is about me, and extremely selfish, really – if I REALLY love others, I have to sacrifice being liked and be a TRUE friend.
It’s ironic that the genesis of this conversation was about a radical who sees fit to “school” our children on tolerance, because he claims to know better than their parents – I wonder who will stand up for the Christian children in public schools whos views will not be tolerated.
Lily – I appreciate what you’re saying, but the reality is, lots of people choose to make life harder than it has to be. Apparently, that’s natural
.
Gosh, I give up! EVERY SINGLE GAY MAN OR WOMAN WAS ABUSED! Hah. Except that is simply isn’t so.
Here’s just one example. Scientists writing in the New York Times:
“We have discovered through much research that..male sexual orientation is substantially genetic. Over the last two years, we have studied the rates of homosexuality in identical and non-identical twin brothers of gay men, as well as adoptive brothers of gay men. Fifty-two percent of the identical twin brothers were gay, as against 22 percent of non-identical twins and 11 percent of the adoptive, genetically unrelated brothers.
In contrast, research on social factors has been fruitless. [:-)...rjw] Despite many attempts, there has been no clear demonstration that parental behavior, even a parent’s homosexuality, affects children’s sexual orientation. Cultures tolerant of homosexuals do not appear to raise more of them than do less permissive societies.”
I realize that you WANT to believe that it’s a choice that can be prayed away, but it isn’t. And I think that everyone deserves someone to love.
It’s often been stated that homosexuality exists in the animal kingdom. Plus guess what? You can get AIDs as a straight person.
I do want to ask – what if you have a gay child? What would you do?
Lily,
I certainly don’t think it is easy to “be gay” and I know people who are gay and really don’t think their lives are easy. I just think there must be a solution to the problem, especially if the problem is living in direct opposition to God’s word.
The narcissism theory I read in James Dobson’s book ‘Bringing Up Boys’. He said that many times a young boy might look at himself in the mirror and get turned on and then the feeling is misconstrued as homosexual feelings. The tragedy of this is, that because homosexuality is so accepted in our society, many of these young people will not get the help they need, but instead get the help they think they want, which for many is encouragement to “be who you are”. Once again, it is sin, and to be loving, we must tell them the truth and encourage them to turn to God.
I understand this may not be the root of every gay persons attraction to the same sex, but it is a theory that I think deserves serious consideration.
Bethany,
Maybe I wasn’t clear about my friend’s son. He was always “different” from the other boys. He was ostracized and made fun of. I just suggested that maybe after being told 1 million times that you are gay, possibly you may start to believe it. Also, if you are struggling with this in your life and you turn one way and find complete acceptance and understanding, then you may quit looking for another answer. I understand that one thing won’t apply to all people.
As for genetics, my husband is a recovering alcoholic. He was probably born with that tendency, but it doesn’t make it any more acceptable for him to act on it.
That’s my last comment on this subject, because I think we all have our own ideas about it and it just feels like a dog chasing its tale to keep going around and around about it.
Bethany,
I think a lot of people are born with certain tendencies. But it has to do more with the “sins of the father being visited on the next generation.” Our “fight is not against flesh and blood but against spirits and principalities.” If sexual perversion of any kind were in the family line, then this sinful oppression passes to the next generation…the Bible says for 7 generations! It can only get stronger and more perverse but for the power of Christ to breakdown every stronghold! By this “born this way” reasoning, child molestation could be explained away. Or, if they do not act on it, but still had lust after it, would it then be OK? Not in the eyes of the Lord…He is interested in our heart first!
You can see this trans generational sin manifest in families with violence, alcoholism, poverty, criminal activity, ect.. It is why we are admonished to not give Satan a foothold. If not just for us, for our generations to come.
We cannot justify or excuse sin and we should be weary of blaming God. He is Holy.
“As for genetics, my husband is a recovering alcoholic. He was probably born with that tendency, but it doesn’t make it any more acceptable for him to act on it.”
I agree completely. My father is an alcoholic; iat runs in our family. I couldn’t agree more.
And, I’m agreeing with you, as well about chasing tails. I’m bowing out of this one
Call me crazy, but to me this is one more reason why the Dept of Education shouldn’t even exist.
Wordwarrior is too nice. You advocates for homosexuality, you weak backed sisters of Christ…have you forgotten the lesson of Sodom and Gomorrah? Why do you think God allowed that story to be a part of his revelation? Homosexuality is against the very nature of God. ARE YOU STUPID??? of course it is. It is an empty relationship. fulfilled only by self. Black is black and white is white and no matter how much feel-goodism you pour into it….it is still wrong. And by the way the verse that God views sin as sin… some He views as an abomination,,,,and if you think God views stealing a pack of gum and living in a homo life as the same, you need to continue to read God’s word and search out the truth.
Thanks, I guess he just hasn’t made the news over here. I did a google U.S. news search and found some articles.
Amen to “heterosexual male”!! He speaks truth!! Read and reread every word carefully!
heterosexual male,
Thank you for bringing some backbone to the conversation
And let me clarify, when I speak of “one sin being elevated above another”…several sins are listed as abominations. Pride is one, for example, that we are all guilty of. BUT, the difference should be noted in our response to sin–as you said, living a lifestyle of sin is completely different than sinning, as our response to our own incidences of sin should be repentance. Living in sin–no matter what the sin–and trying to justify it reveals a heart of rebellion toward God. So I guess my thought is that living in a homosexual lifestyle and trying to justify it is no greater an abomination than living in fornication and trying to justify that. We should be just as upset over our youth culture having pre-marital sex, or unfaithfulness in marriage as we are about this. Perhaps God does view it differently? But I’m not sure.
I just wanted to make that distinction.
Kelly, “Perhaps God does view it differently?”
Well, I don’t know, but they were all punishable by death in the law (having premarital sex once wasn’t, but it was when embraced as a lifestyle as in repeated fornication).
I dont recall being a weak backed, stupid christian who claimed it is aok to act on any sexual wrongdoings.
That was really rude, heterosexual man.
I would fight for wrongdoing if it blatantly came to the public school, and it is insulting to say becasue *I* see a way to reach out to people with sex addictions differently than others here, somehow I am less. We all do have differnt gifts, you know. Dont tell me to stop using mine, because it seems ‘off-balance’ to you. All of our gifts come across off balance, because we dont share the same gifts!
I dont care if its born with, or not. It is beside the point. Feel free to walk around telling homosexuals, drug addicts, or the like that they are perverted, and see how open to you, and Christ they are. We are living in a society where people in general are being raised dysfucntional. Most have had no one EVER really love them, not even their parents. I doubt they would sense love in the accusation of being a pervert.
Approaching the subject differently does not make me a heathen. If it makes me ‘tolerable” (gee, I didnt realize there was anything I could do to make someone stop practicing homosexuality!)and ‘weak-backed’ to be warm to someone instead of separatist, crucify me. I can be a friend and still hold my convictions. We are living in a different generation and people have heard enough about what we know, but little about how we care. Jesus came to set the captive free, and that requires knowing the one set captive. I can draw lines in sand, and I can support church discipline, but I wont go around calling people perverts, pointing out their behavior when I didnt give a hoot to get to know them, come alongside them, or have compassion on them. If they then come to me, and share with me, then apparently ive done something right.
You know, Jesus walked very differently than Sodom and Gomorrah days. People want to claim its all the same….but the New Testament is different.
heterosexual male,
THANK YOU!!!
authentically you, explain “Jesus walked very differently than Sodom and Gomorrah days”….enlighten us…how did God contradict Himself?
heterosexual male, explain why it is ok to call some us weak-backed christians, and saying ARE YOU STUPID….and then I’ll give it my best try.
Good point heterosexual male,
I am often confused by the claim that somehow the Old Testament is obsolete, when Jesus said he didn’t come to change the law. I hear it often and would love to hear some arguments for it.
I for one believe that even if we aren’t “under” the law that there are still natural consequences for breaking it. I don’t believe God just gave us random laws for no reason other than his own amusement and that by ignoring the Old Testament we are harming ourselves.
i know this is off topic of homosexuality, but it is an argument you hear often for justification of that and other sins.
First of all, this isnt about ‘contradicting’ scripture; I never said we dont suffer consequences for wrongdoing. My objection and main point was that there are different facets of loving people. And, that I dont agree it is ok to call people names…Im sick and tired of it being insinuated that some of us are less-than Christians because we dont speak the same exact dialect you do. Doctrines and theologies are important, but they also can get carried away and become the focus.
I, too, have friends who are addicts, ex-prostitutes, smokers, drinkers, swearers, etc….by being around different people has helped me and gained me their vulnerability in being able to have the blessing of being a friend to them, and them to me. Understanding and com passion go a long way, and sometimes people dont care what you know until they know you care about them, and not just for sake of ‘winning them over…’. If we have an agenda, we can be blinded to motivations in friending people. Erroring on the side of grace is good for me, a self-professed recovering legalistic. We all wish and pray the best outcome for every soul, but we all might have a different looking process in getting there. I dont see how that is evil.
Jesus fulfilled the law-the one we could not obey to Gods standard (and still cant). When he walked, he was not a wimp, but he did have compassion and gentleness with people. He spoke the truth, but the chronic and progressive anger with us is gone. This is my opinion.
i am just wondering, aren’t homosexuals also god’s children? shouldn’t gay teens have a place to feel safe and accepted? i don’t believe homosexuality is a choice, it is how people are born. i don’t believe anyone would choose it as a lifestyle simply because in our society it intolerant of differences: it is hard being different.
and this is why there is separation of church and state.
*Applauds* Thank you AM and Terry. You are compassionate people to the core, just as Jesus was.
And Leslie Viles, are you planning to sacrifice your children? Embrace slavery? Because that’s in the Old Testament. Are you okay with following some of it but not ALL of it? I’m curious.
God HATES…
Psalm 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy (God) sight: thou (God) HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY.
Concerning making friendships with some…
Proverbs 22:24,25
24)Make NO FRIENDSHIP with an angry man; and with FURIOUS MAN thou shalt not go;
25)Lest you LEARN his ways, and get a SNARE TO THY SOUL.
If you befriend certain people, you may learn their ways and get a snare to your own soul.
A SNARE. Ouch!
Jesus labels people…
Matthew 3:7
Matthew 12:34
Matthew 23:33
Luke 3:7
These New Testament scriptures have JESUS calling some people a BROOD of VIPERS.
Elsewhere in the New Testament Jesus made and cracked a whip to clear out the money changers from the temple. He wasn’t sweet and gentle about this either.
Proverbs 27:5 OPEN REBUKE is better than secret love.
Pride can cause us to think we’re gonna win certain people over to the Lord by being sweet to them. Pride and spiritual arrogance.
If you chose to ignore THE WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD…there will be calamity in your life. More scripture to back that up.
If you don’t warn your children about so and so’s preverted lifestyle…will you be shocked when your child starts socializing with the this worker of iniquity?
Will you be shocked when your child gets seduced by this worker of iniquity?
Will you be shocked when your child wants to be just like the worker of iniquity?
Have you heard of tough love before?
Kelly, in one of your previous post, you had a video where John Piper is sharing that if we love others we also hate evil.
Terry,
“i am just wondering, aren’t homosexuals also god’s children?”
If by “god’s children” you mean He created the individuals, yes. But those who belong to God in the sense of being redeemed are those who have forsaken their lifestyles of sin. We don’t just receive pardon and freedom from being His created. We can only claim inheritance in the Kingdom of God by being made clean through the redemption of Jesus blood. And that cleansing makes us new creatures, ones that desire to turn from our sin, not find excuses for it.
Whatever the confusion over homosexuality is, we know some things to be ABSOLUTE truth, and apart from that, no amount of our opinions matter.
The Bible speaks of a life of immorality as sin. That includes fornication, adultery, incest, beastiality and homosexuality.
Whether that seems unfair to us matters not. God said it, I believe it, that settles it. We can still have compassion on those tangled in a life of sin though! Believing what God says about sin doesn’t mean we hate those people. Conversely, if the love of God is in us, it causes us to feel the greatest compassion of all people as our desire is to see people become free from a life of sin and condemnation.
Any explanations apart from that are humanistic and have no part in discussion among Christians. This is a Christian blog.
Lily,
May I remind you that part of Jesus’ compassion (and ours too) caused him to speak some of the hardest words to fall on human ears. Included in those words were, “If you love me you will obey Me (read: God’s Word–”the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us”).
Jesus said that fornicators would not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. He said if we aren’t willing to “crucify the flesh and its lusts” we are not worthy of Him.
I am fiercely defensive of my Savior’s reputation….don’t mar it with your twisted view of what you want Him to be.
Dear Kelly,
For your readers unfamiliar with Romans 1:26-27 I will post it here.
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. NIV
Homosexuality is wrong according to God and His Bible. A person walking with the Lord would not want homosexuality taught in schools as being acceptable because it is not acceptable to God.
No, Lily, marring it in that you love to quote about parts of Jesus’ character, while completely ignoring the rest. We all agree that Jesus was compassionate, came to save sinners, and has mercy on people. But we don’t agree that His mercy tells those living a lifestyle of unrepentant sin (described specifically by Scripture) that they are fine the way they are. That is not compassionate at all! That’s the part of Him you twist. Jesus would never lie to someone to keep from hurting their feelings while doing so would cause them to reap eternal judgment. That’s so logical I can’t believe I’m explaining it.
And so we believe the same way…the most unloving thing to do is to tell someone their sin is acceptable to God. If you believe it isn’t sin, you have to explain why God said it was. No one here has blasted the person living a homosexual lifestyle; we simply maintain that it wrong in the eyes of God, just like other immoralities are. Would you treat the sin of adultery the same way? (Notice I said “the sin” not the person.)
People are born gay. Then, JUST LIKE YOU, they would like a partner and a friend through life. JUST LIKE YOU some of them would like to parent. JUST LIKE YOU.
That’s so logical I can’t believe I’m explaining it.
I would love to know what you’d do if you had a gay child. I’m thinking that you’ll just kick them out of the house “prayerfully.”
Thanks for not publishing my comments! As always, you don’t like disagreement, do you? No, you wear that bright smile for Jesus! Concealing, I’m sure, so much pain and uncertainty.
Lily,
Your insults aren’t effective. The conversation ends here, because up until now, you’ve only given me opinions with no Scripture to back them up (along with rudeness). Christians formulate truth around God’s Word. There is little truth in opinions. By the way, I answered earlier what I would do with a gay child. Treat them the same as if they were involved in any other lifestyle of sin…my point all along, sin is sin.
Lily,
I forgot to say, I haven’t published the comments I thought were simply too rude…trying to keep the discussion respectful. But if you don’t mind revealing that, I guess I shouldn’t either.
Lily,
I’m sorry, just one more thing…choose your insults carefully. When you say “you don’t like disagreements, do you?” it sounds silly. Because anyone who reads the blog knows that a whole lot of the comment section involves “disagreements”; it’s just that most people are pretty respectful. Not all, but most. No, I don’t mind disagreements.
I’m not trying to insult you. I’m trying to reveal yourself to you.
But the day you wake up will be too late, I fear. You’ll see how you’ve spent your life in unkindness. This is not grace. This is not mercy. I’m simply sad and sorry for you. That’s all.
I have a strong feeling that God will welcome me to Heaven.
Oh and you don’t like people to disagree with you CLEARLY. At a certain point, you just hit em with the god’s words! And then you shut it down.
So funny! How little you understand yourself! I’m laughing…
Lily,
“are you planning to sacrifice your children? Embrace slavery? Because that’s in the Old Testament. Are you okay with following some of it but not ALL of it?”
I wrote in my post that I knew we weren’t UNDER the law, but just pointed out that there are natural consequences to breaking them. I don’t want to stone my children and I don’t pray for God to destroy San Fransisco with fire.
Someone asked what if your child was gay? I have thought about this a lot. I would not prayerfully kick him out of the house. I have actually talked to him about it, after one of my gay friends asked me the same question. My son said “well I hope you don’t act like it is OK. I would hope my mother would tell me the truth and try to show me my sin.” this is a 16 year old boy. So, I think that we should show that same love for everyone. Are you REALLY loving your neighbor if you pretend they are living a holy life when it is really a lifestyle of ongoing sin? I think that might be the root of this disagreement. Jesus stopped the stoning of the adulteress. He absolutely stopped it. But he told her to go and “sin no more”. I think (just my opinion) that Jesus would be a friend to homosexuals in the effort to show love and compassion, but I cannot imagine that he would tell them it was OK to live sinfully AND try to convince the rest of the world that it was not sin.
I know I said I was out of this conversation. I think I mean this time—unless someone addresses me directly and then I jut can’t resist
Lily,
I really don’t understand why you read this blog. You obviously do not believe in what the Bible teaches and just want to argue what you believe. The Bible is very clear that homosexuality is a sin and is wrong. That is where Kelly is coming from and there is only one truth.
This is where the slippery slope begins. 50 years ago, no one thought it possible that a gay agenda would be dictating our schools, politicians or laws. If you suggested it, the people would have laughed because it would have seemed so ridiculous. Right now, what is being sneaked in, under our noses that will be this rampant in 50 years? As Christians we must stand, vocally, against these things. Congress is considering a bill that would guarantee American parents soverignty over their children. In contrast, some of your represenatives are in favor of adopting the UN conventions ruling on children (one law makes it so a parent cannot teach bigotry by teaching the Bible). NAMBLA is making headway, the homosexual group trying to lower the age of consent to 7! Where God directs each family, we have to fight!
Thanks, Kelly, for letting me take it in this vein; we wouldn’t be having this discussion today if there was a stand for righteousness in the last generation instead of “tolerance” or apathy.
Lily, WW doesn’t need me to defend her, she’s perfectly capable, but I find your supposed altruistic desire to “reveal” Kelly to “herself” very strange –
First, WW and most of the rest of us have our own blogs/sites that discuss a variety of lifestyle issues, home and family, unapologetically Christian, many postures of worship and a variety of voices. We are hardly in lock-step with each other, except for our love of Jesus Christ.
WW/Kelly posts from her heart, based on Biblical teachings, and includes her family, her successes, her areas of concern, her struggles, her life – she is not hiding in the anonimity of blogland, hurling insults and making assumptions about total strangers.
As I see it, what you have revealed about yourself is all I need to know. Who, exactly, is intolerant?
While I do believe homosexuality is wrong, I don’t know that pulling children from school is the answer. If a parent is doing their job (and most parents these days are not), they will learn right and wrong from their parents, not the school. While a Christian and a conservative, I don’t understand the desire of some Christians to complete seperate themselves from the world. How does this fit in with biblical teaching?
Nurse Bee – for us, discerning what is appropriate exposure for our kids is our highest calling – I don’t let them swim in the deep end without supervision. That would be negligent of me, and unwise. I see secular schools, public among them, as sending them into the deep end unsupervised. For now, they’re little kids and it’s not their job to shield themselves from adult subject matter – it’s mine, no matter how inconvenient that truth may be.
Nurse Bee,
“I don’t understand the desire of some Christians to complete seperate themselves from the world. How does this fit in with biblical teaching?”
There is a radical difference in “separating yourself from the world” (it would take a very aggressive, concerted effort to do that) and allowing our children to be educated by secular teaching and influenced the majority of the day by peers who do not embrace our Christian worldview. My question is, how does the Bible teach that? I’ve posted before on the numerous biblical principles that spell out our need to avoid the “counsel of the ungodly”. There is far more biblical evidence to keep our children out of govt. school than there is for it. (Reminder: Jesus didn’t even let his grown disciples sit under any other teaching than His own. He shepherded them all day, walking right beside them. How much more our little ones?)
You mention that “if parents are doing their job they will learn right from wrong at home”. Really? Because statistically, that’s not happening. Children from Christian homes are either leaving the faith altogether at alarming rates, or their lives simply don’t reflect a Christian worldview.
What your saying doesn’t hold up to the reality of what is happening. And in my opinion, it doesn’t hold up biblically.
cottage child…beautiful defense, thank you.