I think what Pearl was trying to say when she said “When you obey your husband you obey God” is that we are called by God as wives to reverence and submit to our husbands. There are many scriptures on this. I just know in my own life that when I obey God’s commands I am blessed.

“When you obey your husband, you obey God. The degree to which you reverence your husband is the degree to which you reverence your Creator.”

Where is that in Scripture?

It’s not there. This is false teaching.

“God has provided for your husband’s complete sanctification and deliverance from temptation through you, his wife.”

This is not Scriptural teaching. Debi puts the wife in the place of the Holy Spirit. Can you imagine being married to an abusive man (who you are never good enough for, as it is) and now you are being told that your submissive spirit and your NOT demanding your rights is what his sanctification is dependant on?

“God stands with you when you stand by your man, but you will stand alone if you insist on standing by your rights. Always remember that the day you stop smiling is the day you stop trying to make your marriage heavenly, and it is the first day leading to your divorce proceedings.”

Again, imagine listening to this, if you can, as a wife who is regularly and consistantly abused. Debi is talking, in that quote, to wives who have been sinned against by their husbands, and telling them how to respond. The wives are basically told NOT to feel what they are feeling. But God wired us to feel for a reason. Feelings have purpose. The feelings of deep pain are often there as a warning sign that something is terribly wrong. I put on a smiling face for YEARS in the face of hte abuse, my goal being to win my husband’s heart. In the long run, it simply taught him that the abuse was okay, that he could continue hurting me because I wouldn’t make his life miserable for it. It is like giving sweet smiles to a toddler’s daily tantrum. It feeds more of the same.

“A woman’s calling is not easy. To allow someone else to control your life is much harder than taking control of it yourself.”

How was I to know that my husband’s need to control everything was abuse, when books like the above define it as his “role,” and obedience to his control as my “role.”

I could go on with quote upon quote, but I won’t, and even then, we would probably still disagree. I simply want to say that this book and similar books can be terribly destructive when read by women who long for God but are in abusive marriages. Unless you have experienced such a marriage, I’m not really sure I can explain.

Our discussion became pretty tangled so I wanted to pull out and clarify a couple things before I go my way.

I need to explain something about the original comment I quoted from my dad.

He is given to hyperbole and isn’t likely to even believe himself that the “only” reason a person writes a book is because of greed. If a book is being sold, though, someone stands to make some money and it is something to keep in mind when reading the book. He’s been in both publishing and advertising and knows that the markup on some books is huge compared to the publishing costs.

He was only trying to get me to see that I was repeatedly spending money on and reading stuff that kept me vaguely agitated and was harmful to my simple faith in God alone. It was during a time that I was attempting to dig deeper than “what I’d always been told was true” and book after book (all with different perspectives about what real salvation looks like) left me even more confused and worried that my soul was in peril if I didn’t pick the “right” perspective.

And it trailed back to the fact that I was trusting in man’s wisdom rather than asking God directly.

I am not a bit against Christians writing books and making money from their efforts. If a person has something worthwhile to share, I don’t mind paying them for their work and wouldn’t stand in the way of someone else’s ability to buy.

All I was trying to say is that it is important to use caution and remember that not all Christian living/help books are helpful (for various reasons)
and since I do not personally know the authors I need to be extremely careful to not bank my faith and spiritual well-being on their teaching.

I never have believed that a pastor or missionary should work “for free” and it’s not my business to say that someone who takes a job as a pastor is sinning.

If someone is truly needy, and *I* have the ability to help, I don’t see that the Bible supports the idea of me trying to charge them for that help. On the other hand, there is nothing that I have found in Scripture to forbid a helper from receiving a gift from the person who has been helped, if God moves them to give.

“I think it takes discernment and self-control to not overstep from simply trading perishable material goods to slipping into territory where we don’t belong.”

I agree.

I’ll try again with the selling of goods. I have no problem with people writing/selling books and making money.

I am concerned when professing (hopefully mature)Christians place a price tag on what they consider to be godly counsel–and offer that spiritual guidance to others for a cost.

A needy person should not be taken advantage of. Widows and orphans should not have to be reduced to begging or prostitution in order to receive help. And there is a spiritual parallel, in that when we were helpless, Christ gave everything for us. We don’t dare turn around and force spiritually/emotionally bleeding people to pay for their own bandages. Think “Good Samaritan”

The point of the worker being worthy is not how much he gets paid, but Who is his boss. Were the disciples working for themselves (and free to charge whatever they pleased) or were they working for God, (thus subject to His terms of service).

Perhaps I should not have used a burning building scenario. Paying someone for a preventive secular service (to preserve material wealth) is not the same thing as racing to the side of someone who is already in serious emotional/spiritual trouble.

1 Corinthians is probably not a good place to go in order to determine the proper use of spiritual gifting (or even to develop a comprehensive list). Paul was chewing out the Corinthians for their lack of brotherly love and concern for each other. And he basically was saying “Who cares if you have ‘gifts’ if you don’t have a relationship with the Lord of love? Stop being so self-centered.”

But, I would say that one good way to determine whether something is a true gifting from God or just another service is whether the person who offers it is expecting some sort of material compensation.

If we ask for monetary payment (or look for human praise)for our good deeds, then we should not expect to receive heavenly treasure for our sacrifice. Matthew 6:3-4

When I read my Bible, I note that when God heals, it is not the same as when man “heals”. We have to use drugs, knives, plastic body parts etc. I don’t find anywhere that those who God healed were continually dependent on Prophets or apostles for long-term treatment. A service that relies on man’s skill is not the same as something God miraculously does.

Concerning less tangible gifts like help, prophecy, interpretation, etc……The pagans worshiped gods who would “give a word” through their priests for a price. In Acts 16, Paul casts out a “spirit of divination” from a slave girl who was making her masters a good profit. Elisha refused to take payment from Naaman when God cured him of leprosy(He knew it was God alone who deserved the glory)–but a dishonest servant got to carry the disease when he accepted a tiny portion of the payment for his own gain……

I’m thinking we need to be extremely careful how we manage that which God has entrusted to our care.

There is a big difference between getting paid for doing a secular service and accepting payment for something that God alone deserves credit for.

I think it takes discernment and self-control to not overstep from simply trading perishable material goods to slipping into territory where we don’t belong.