Blessings, Lori #3 the Premillennial Dispensationalist

The RC church of the Middle Ages and previously, national Israel, made the same assumption about ruling this present world in the name of God.

Here’s a quote from an article that sums up what I was trying to point out about what happened at the cross:

“Satan’s limitations have been multiplied since the crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus.

The Bible shows us that if we “resist the devil he will flee from” us (James 4:7). The only power that Satan has over the Christian is the power we give him and the power granted to him by God (2 Cor. 12:7-12). Scripture tells us that Satan is defeated, disarmed, and spoiled (Col. 2:15; Rev. 12:7; Mark 3:27). He has “fallen” (Luke 10:18) and was “thrown down” (Rev. 12:9). He was “crushed” under the feet of the early Christians, and by implication, under the feet of all Christians throughout the ages (Rom. 16:20). He has lost “authority” over Christians (Col. 1:13). He has been “judged” (John 16:11). He cannot “touch” a Christian (1 John 5:18). His works have been destroyed (1 John 3:8). He has “nothing” (John 14:30). He must “flee” when “resisted” (James 4:7). He is “bound” (Mark 3:27; Luke 11:20). Finally, the gates of hell “shall not overpower” the advancing church of the Lord Jesus Christ (Matt. 16:18).[2] Surely Satan is alive, but he is not well on planet earth.”

The full article addresses the question “Is Satan the God of This World?”:

http://www.americanvision.org/article/is-satan-the-god-of-this-world-/

(And Kelly, I have been moderated).

It’s what happened to Judah’s daughter Dinah in Genesis 34

Kelly (word warrior) has written quite a few times about raising and discipling and disciplining one’s children with the knowledge that while they are children now, they will one day be men and women.

The same is true of other people’s children.

So in effect, those who evangelize children are evangelizing future heads-of-household, and if their commitment to Christ holds, their children and those who come after for many generations may end up with the blessing of growing up in a Christian home.

I would be interested to see the results of a study of children from non-Christian families who came to faith, and whether that faith led to long-term obedience to God or was strangled out by the world, especially their family’s indifference or opposition.

In my own experience–which I offer as nothing more than an anecdote–
(that just turned into a four-page monstrosity, so I will post it on my blog. http://reconciledtogod.blogspot.com/2010/02/history-of-my-conversion-to.html ).

I agree that feelings and seemings are not a way to judge a thing’s truth, but I will say the “things getting better” model is more compelling than the “things getting worse” model. But I don’t think that the church, being made of sinful believers like ourselves, could possibly be unblemished.

A couple times this week we tried family worship, which I have wanted to have for some time. We read some Scripture, talked about it, and then played a song and sang along.

I tried to have Hannah sit with me for the reading part.

Then for church, my goal was to have her stay through the opening songs, scripture reading, announcements, and children’s message. The children’s message takes place in the sanctuary; all the children go to the front of the room and sit in front of a man or woman who gives a short lesson based on the Scripture reading.

Hannah did not like the sitting still, and when allowed to stand, did not like staying nearby rather than running around. During the annnouncements (which ran particularly long) I had to take her to the back room because she was protesting sitting so loudly. I had given her the bulletin (order of service) to “read.” I made her sit on my lap when she was back there, and kept that up till she stopped fighting me (mostly). Then I realized she was a little wet and needed to go into the nursery to change her diaper (her bag was in there with her brother; I didn’t think I could handle both of them, and Daddy had powerpoint duty)–but I did not put her down to play. We went back in and had missed very little of the children’s message. She did not sit still well for that either–she was the youngest up there by at least 6 months.

I had chosen a rather open row of chairs, but the open portion ended up taken by a family I did not know. I saw them talking to someone downstairs later about where their daughters should go for Sunday School, so presumably they were new. But the father, who had sat next to Hannah, seemed very understanding. We got lots of comments on how beautiful and cute she is, and none on her behavior. Daddy didn’t seem to be embarrassed. Grandpa and Grandma didn’t come due to an incident with the turkey as they tried to prepare for lunch.

I got very little out of the part of the service I had Hannah with me, except some of the songs I sang while I was holding her.

I do plan to do it again next week–and we will keep Peter too as Daddy will be able to help. Or he might be doing sound. But I need to concentrate on Hannah which would mean not nursing Peter.

I am sure it will be easier as she begins to understand the expectations, and regardless of whether we choose to keep her with us or send her to chldren’s church, I do want her listening to the children’s message. I also need to care less about what others think of my worship style, and more about worshiping God with abandon the way He has called me to, for the sake of my daughter. (I move a lot more during the songs than anyone else at our church–it helps me focus on the lyrics and on God.)

By the time we were done Peter was very ready for me. And he proceeded to be distracting during our Sunday School class (Hannah stayed in nursery; Daddy and I attend a Sunday School class for “young adults” (college through 29) with a topic of evangelism.

Perhaps you and your husband could speak privately with your pastor about this concern. I agree that there is no reason to have such details expounded in corporate worship and a pastor/teacher ought to be aware that not all parents wish for their children to be taught of such things by anyone other than themselves.

You could ask your pastor if he wouldn’t mind “toning down” the language or at least if he could give fair warning so parents can cover their young children’s ears or something.

This is just my suggestion, based on personal experience and my understanding of Scripture. You definitely should talk this over with your husband and lay it before the Lord (if you have not done so already).

Those servants of the Lord who have been entrusted with the care of Christ’s flock ought to be open and responsive to suggestions on how they can better serve the body of Christ.

Obviously, some requests are unreasonable and it is impossible for any one pastor to please every parishoner equally. However, I don’t see your particular concern as being unreasonable. God has given you and your husband primary responsibility for the care of your children and if your conscience as a steward of little souls is being compromised by the Sunday sermon, you need to take that before the Lord and ask Him what you need to do about it.

I didn’t think to quote directly, but here we are, from Leah:

“The very fact that people believe Satan is able to or will reign is the denial of Christ’s present Lordship and what He did on the cross. That is serious business. It’s like people don’t understand fully what happened when Christ defeated Satan that day and overcame death. They get the sin part. But they don’t understand the actual transfer of power, (sorry, that sounds like Star Wars terminology). Jesus took back that day what Satan gained at the Fall.”

This is really problematic to me. It almost sounds (or does sound, actually) like Leah is saying that Satan somehow robbed God of His power at the Fall. This is not true. God has always retained His power, has always been omnipotent, and anything Satan has done, God has allowed! This continues to be the case. God has absolute dominion over His creation, reigns, has reigned, and will reign forever, but He has chosen, and revealed in His Word that He has chosen, to allow Satan to work in our world for His glory (as incomprehensible as it may be to us).

We know that even in the church age, there is still an Enemy who stalks around like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8-9). The Holy Spirit gives us the power to resist him, but this is not a description of an entity who has been stripped of all his power, who has been cast forever into a lake of fire.

1 John 5:19 tells us, “We know that we are children of God, and that THE WHOLE WORLD IS UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE EVIL ONE.”

This letter was written after Christ’s death and the establishment of the church.

Although Christ has conquered death and reigns in heaven, God has allowed Satan to have continued influence in the earth, for God’s own glory and His own purposes. When Jesus returns, He will vanquish His enemies for good, casting death, hell, and Satan into the lake of fire. However, I think 1 John 5:19 speaks pretty clearly to the continuing influence and control that God has allowed Satan to have over the world. Christ is victorious (indeed, if God exists outside of time, He has been victorious forever since He was slain from the foundation of the world), but temporally, on earth, we must wait for Him (not us) to demonstrate that victory.

Hopefully I’m making sense, even if you can’t agree?

God bless y’all!