Do Working Women Blaspheme God’s Word?
My friend Stacy @ Your Sacred Calling, has done a superb job of handling this issue of Titus 2. Well worth the read.
“I’ve received questions as to what is meant in Titus 2 where Paul talks about God’s Word being blasphemed. They wondered if working women blaspheme God’s name. First, let me say no; from what I’ve studied in the word of God, a woman who works outside of the home does not blaspheme God’s Word by doing so….
Ladies, this is the Word of God! We may be able to debate the definition of a keeper at home, but we really can’t argue about the fact that being a “homemaker” is in fact included in the list of things young women should be taught to practice. And it seems pretty clear that Paul is saying God’s Word is blasphemed in society when the church rejects or ignores the teachings of Titus 2.”
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feminism, working moms | Word Warrior | 
August 15, 2010 10:33 am
Dear Kelly
I’m following your blog since I’m in the blog world. You are such an inspiration and encouragement for me in being a Godly wife and mother, and by not be ashamed to teach the truth. I’ve honored you with a blog award. Visit http://www.backtoancientways.blogspot.com to collect your blog award.
Have a blessed week.
Linnie
Followed the link and read the article. Very convoluted argument where she says…No, but to support her position she uses scripture that proves she is wrong! I knew there was going to be an issue when she says how she is going to leave out distracting parts of the scripture.
Ah, Kelly, maybe you can tell me how a verse that says that God is blasphemed by people who claim to follow Him but do not do as He commands…..at the same time says …well, it isn’t really blasphemed…it just could be blasphemed. Are you kidding me? I have this women’s book and read her site…I have to think this is some kind of hoax or I really read this wrong.
IF it isn’t blasphemed for not being a homemaker..then the rest of the verse is the same. Then it isn’t blasphemed for any of the other behaviors or commands listed.
This makes no sense, and I tremble to think that I am understanding this “teaching” correctly and that it is being taught to other women.
YES, there are women in positions right now that must work. However, God commands us to be homemakers. It is the support and teaching of other Christian women that shows this to those working and helps them get back to what they are susposed to be doing as soon as possible (like through a home business etc).
We are not to say..hey, your not obeying God..don’t worry about it..it isn’t that big of a deal!
This has to be a joke!
By the way, I tried to leave a comment but don’t have a Google ID.
Respectfully,
Ace
Ace, please chill. And more bluntly, please climb off Stacy’s back. I’ve never seen a woman or writer promote homemaking more than Stacy Mcdonald and she’d never deny God’s words thus. The Bible says to teach women to be keepers of the home; it does not say they may do nothing else, may not earn an income, or may ONLY earn an income from home. Stacy’s not making excuses or lightening the Bible’s words, but studying them strenously so women do not feel unnecessarily condemned and have a clear understanding.
Jennifer,
I think that you may want to re-read your response and then re-read my comment friend. I won’t dignify your tone by responding in kind, I would instead say that the tone of your comment is part of your problem. The other part, the more serious part, is that in no way did you expound with any Biblical knowledge..you simple told me to lay off someone you like.
Really, is that what you got? Because we are talking souls here. We are talking a witness for God and we are talking a women TEACHING OTHER WOMEN OF GOD that they do not have to do ONE of the behaviors listed in this verse. REALLY, on whose authority?
To be logical, then NONE of the behaviors have to be done.
I would strongly encourage you and anyone else who reads the article to actually take the five minutes that it takes to read the entire book of Titus and see what it actually says. As it is rife with REPROVING those who are spreading false gospel and laying down the tennets of how those who serve the Lord must act.
Since when did obedience become Al La Cart? And since when did liking someone mean they don’t have t be right about what they are teaching about the Bible?
Kelly, I have been reading you for awhile, if you are standing with her on this I will be shocked. And frankly, I would like you to point out where in the Bible you are getting your stance from. You can read mine, you don’t have to leave anything out. The Book of Titus.
Respectfully and sadly,
Ace
Ace,
I think I’m confused about what you think Stacy is saying. She is NOT saying we are exempt from the list. She is saying, quite emphatically, that we had better be teaching all the things on the list so that those outside the church don’t have any occasion to blaspheme the Word of God.
I don’t think she was making an “exception” for some women to pursue a career and ignore the “Keeper at Home” part of that verse.
I think she was saying that the list in Titus is how a family *ought* to look and how women *ought* to be taught to live. But if a woman, through a situation beyond her control finds herself in a position where she feels forced to work, that Christians shouldn’t throw her under the bus for that. HELP her, yes…but not write her off.
Ace,
I think Stacy did an accurate job of explaining who and what the blaspheming is about.
What she is saying is that the part of the verse that says, “so that the Word of God is not blasphemed” doesn’t make a declarative statement that “anyone who doesn’t do what’s on the list blasphemes”, as that verse is often interpreted.
The list contains important admonitions that the church is responsible for teaching. When the church fails to teach them, and consequently, women, in general, fail to live them, outsiders are given occasion to take an aim at God’s reputation.
Just as Stacy said, it’s more of a chain reaction. When we fail to teach and follow the principles laid out in Scripture, it may not necessarily be sin in and of itself, but it often produces consequences detrimental to the Christian family and therefore gives the enemy a foothold.
That’s the way I interpreted Stacy’s article and I think it was accurate. That being said, this unraveling of reasoning is why I often do take a hard stand against something. The slippery slope is too easy to step on. I’ve put it like this: our default position should always be that God’s design is for women to fulfill their ministry and purpose of home. If a woman is forced to work outside the home, it should be considered an undesirable situation and the church should aid her or her family to restore her to a place where she can come back. Not a popular stance, I know, but the one I feel best lines up with Scripture and the obvious consequences we have seen from abandoning such principles.
“What she is saying is that the part of the verse that says, “so that the Word of God is not blasphemed” doesn’t make a declarative statement that “anyone who doesn’t do what’s on the list blasphemes”, as that verse is often interpreted.”
Yes, that is what she is saying and I am saying a reading of the verse shows she is clearly wrong. There was no suggestion. There was no multiple choice given. There was a command given for certain behaviors to be done and taught SO THAT (ah, it is clear right there…because if they are NOT done..) the Word of God is not blasphemed. You are drawing a conclusion to support your own IDEAS not teaching what the scripture says.
As for the rest of your comment, had her article said likewise I would have understood. But I am in shock and awe that you are saying that those behaviors clearly listed as to be taught and followed do not have the consequence of blaspheming God’s Word when those claiming Christ refuse to do them. Wow, sorry..if you don’t have to keep the home you can get rip roaring drunk too. You can’t cherry pick, there is a list.
Wow, just WOW!
I have only before found this “reasoning” with those who work outside the home and do other things like not submitting to their husbands.
“Wow, sorry..if you don’t have to keep the home you can get rip roaring drunk too. You can’t cherry pick, there is a list.”
No, Stacy nor I, are certainly not remotely saying this. I’m sorry you think that. The Word of God is blasphemed (i.e….others will be able to blaspheme, therefore, the breaker of the list is responsible too) if the list isn’t taught/lived.
WOW yourself, Ace. I think you’re in danger of giving yourself an aneurism over this. The Titus passage talks about women being keepers of the home; it DOES NOT speak of them not doing anything else. You need to udnerstand this, because what you’ve got, to borrow your phrase, is paltry at best. The rest of your rather hyper, challenging tone and words aren’t really worth addressing.
I debated a lot with myself whether I would post this comment and not sure this is relevant here. But I decided to. Because this is so confusing for me in America. The word of God is the truth. But I have seen people using their personal experience or culture or the way they grew up and claim their interpretation of the bible and please note I said interpretation of the word of God, not the word of God per se as the truth. The word of God is the same. People interpret it. And then sometimes twist it to suit their purpose IMO.
A very simple example would be skirts. Now my native country’s dress is a long loose pant and top. I translate that to wearing pants and a loose top. Because I am comfortable. Not because I am making anti or pro feminist statements. Because I am uncomfortable in skirts and for me a pant is believe it or not, feminine and modest. People cover their heads during worship from where I come from. I do that still because it is my culture and I grew up that way, not because I want to make any statements about head covering. But ask any preacher from where I come from and they will interpret that the bible asks us to cover our head and our hair is not the only thing necessary.
Guns are huge among christians in America to my knowledge. Complete and total shock to me. I have been told it is in the Bible and King David hunted. Well, King David drank wine and danced naked praising the Lord. I have seen people against dancing and drinking wine at weddings (the most famous one being the Duggar wedding). Anna’s father said Jesus drank grape juice. Well, I read the Lord turned water into wine. Again I have filed that under something cutural I will never understand. But they interpret the bible. Where I come from women preach the word of God a lot because there are some places men are not allowed. But ask some people and they will say women preaching is wrong.
I have heard slavery has been justified because it appears in the bible. Do not know if it is true or not. I know where I come from some Christians use Genesis 24: 2-4 to justify a horrific thing called caste.
Question is whom do we trust to interpret the word of God. I think most christians wherever in the world they are want to serve God the way they can, definitely do not want to go to hell and make the best decisions for their families based on their circumstances. And it can take many forms as God calls us to do. Just my two cents.
Sylvia, I think you’re stressing too much here. Your general points are excellent: people do twist the Bible, most do wish to serve God, and cultures and personal experiences do affect individuals. But a lot of your concerns are about matters people have to come to peace with personally. Christians do own guns, though I’ve never heard the ridiculous defense of King David’s hunting; we own guns for safety and believe in the right to protect ourselves. The main people against owning guns are not Christians, but liberals who think shooting is cruel and are basically naive about violence. Most people do not believe all women must wear skirts or head coverings; these issues ARE largely solved depending on individual comfort levels.
The Bible does not promote slavery; what it does is set out guidelines for how slaves should have handled difficult situations. Nowadays people apply those guidelines to employees and employers.
You are right, we must be careful regarding who we trust to interpret the Bible. The best thing to do is research it ourselves, look at the Scripture others use in their teaching, and sometimes look into the background of whoever wants to teach us.
Thank you for the reply Jennifer. I am trying to understand the different flavors of American Christianity and as such find where I am comfortable. That is why the questions. Where I come from christians are less than 10%. So catholics, baptists, methodists, anglican, lutheran, pentecostal are all classified under christian. I did not see much doctrine debated. I think it was a matter of plain survival as when you are less than 10% of the population doctrine does not really matter so much.
For instance I find head covering and courtship very familiar culturally. I myself had an arranged marriage. Well, I chose to even though I did come to America for higher studies. Someone with my profile automatically means feminist to many christians and that word is kind of almost like a slur word in certain circles to me. I am not familiar with the history of feminism, home schooling before I came here.
My native country is considered quite conservative. In dress, belief systems, children living home after graduation etc. But guns in my culture are taboo. I think it is a very American or a western thing and cultural irrespective of politics. Christians having guns was shocking to me. Someone I asked why gave me that answer about King David. Do not know if they were serious or just trying to blow me off.
But yes, people seem to twist the bible all the time to suit themselves and like it or not is very confusing and yes, stressful. Especially when they throw bible verses at you for simple things like not wearing skirts and yes that has happened to me and make it seem like I am heading to hell because I choose to work.
I went through a very stressful time and confusion of faith in America because I saw only mega churches, prosperity gospels and power point presentations or ordinary christians who seemed to be rigid in doctrine and their interpretation of the bible. I never had that coming from a non christian country. My husband and I prayed so much for peace until we as a family decided we are responsible for our own choices. And not stress so much what other people say. I thought I would fit in as a christian more in America, instead secular America seems more familiar which is scary to me. Sorry for rambling. But thought I would give an outsider’s view looking in.
No ramble Silvia, your concerns are valid. I’m just so glad you know Christ! And due to your country’s condition, you discovered another truth: faith beyond debate. If more Christians were pressed just to survive, just to believe the Gospel, we wouldn’t be so concerned over petty details like skirts and who gets to preach; in such circles, it only matters that someone preaches period! Issues like modesty ARE important, but when it comes down to skirts and minute details like this, it can easily revert to nitpicking.
Sylvia, I sympathize, I really do. Being a cross-cultural family, my husband and I both have run up against cultural issues in each other’s churches. He finds American Christianity…confusing. On many fronts. lol. In his country, evengelical Christians are struggling to give up the cultural “necessity” of female genital mutilation–it has been ingrained for generations that a girl must be mutilated to be “pure” and of course sexual purity is an important part of Christian living, so the two have been combined when they shouldn’t have been.
And there are certainly American Christians who can come across as extremely judgemental, eg: If you don’t wear their particular type of clothing, or celebrate the particular holidays they do, or say God’s name a certain way (We had a local Messianic congregation split bitterly over whether it was better to say Adonai or YHWH *sigh*). I am debating defriending someone on facebook (Oh, the drama!) because while she is a pleasant enough person and has many interesting things to say, I don’t appreciate the near daily reminders that anyone who isn’t a Sabbath Day-worshipper is in dreadful sin against the Lord, and that “Christ” is a pagan term and Yeshua is the only acceptable way to refer to the Savior. Augh.
*However*, I think for the most part people are able to hold their opinions and interpretations without thinking everyone who disagrees is going to hell. In fact, if they do believe that by wearing pants a woman is headed for hell, they’ve just denied the work of the Cross.
I do believe children are best served by having their mother be their primary caretaker. I believe God designed us that way, emotionally and biologically. I believe that having a home where one parent is always available and is working in the home helps a family maintain a homelife that is healthy for them. I believe God bothered to mention “home keeping” in his Word because it is important.
Does that mean I think you are going to hell? Nope. Does it mean I think you are a bad mother? Certainly not. Does it mean we can’t be friends? I would hope not! It means we disagree on doctrine/habit which is secondary in the grand scheme of things. I will maintain that what I believe is true (why believe it, otherwise?) but it does not have to be taken as a denigration of your spiritual life or your family. I think one of the temptations we can easily fall into (myself included) is to take *everything* personally and assume that because a person holds a different opinion from ourselves, that they do not like us, or think badly of us, or spend their days talking about how horrible we are. We are probably not as central to other people’s lives as we think.
Thank you for the kind reply Margaret. My experiences have been formed through a period of years. I was a naive, unmarried girl in my 20s who was fresh off the boat well plane so to speak when I first came to America for higher studies. No family except a few cousins and aunts. Everything was a culture shock. In my culture driving is not a necessary skill, I knew how to do laundry, but not coin operated, certain words did not seem familiar in the grocery store. I was raised with British English. Things like bell peppers and okra are called capsicum and lady’s finger. So it was a big adjustment for me. Slowly I learned my way around American culture and eventually got married to my husband who is from my native country. Today my family and I have fit in very well in America. I have even learned to make American food.
Contras that with my experience with American Christianity. I was raised with ‘you will not go to church only if you are in a coma’. So needless to say the first weekend I could I went. Don’t even remember the denomination. I just picked the nearest one. Tried mega churches did not like how impersonal they were. So tried a smaller congregation. Everyone was wonderful and welcoming. Until some people found out I came here to study. Alone. Unmarried. I did not wear skirts etc. Then there was a silent disapproval. And then slowly but surely talk about what the bible says about women etc. I did not even date, more for my culture and family, but I did interact with men. Needless to say there was talk. So I stopped going.
Once I got married my husband and I tried the church thing again. Church hopped to be precise. Because now we had children who needed to grow in church. But many churches to us seem to be either mega churches, put too much emphasis on doctrine vs the bible, become too politicised (especially during last election which was disgusting to me). It seems American christianity to me has been reduced to fights about abortion, feminism, politics, homosexuality, doctrine, women being ordained and most sad of all, refusing communion or threatening people with hell if they do not conform to what some people think they should do.
Too much noise and distraction. Too confusing. I know people from my native country who drive for hours once a month just to attend church for communion when they are surrounded by churches. There is so much good here, please do not mistake me. But sometimes the things that are emphasized and are front and center turn people off.
I am used to a simple church with just a message of God. No politics, no doctrine fights, no frills, no powerpoints, no edifices built with borrowed money, just plain worship. I have seen a mighty man of God at work. Billy Graham. Sadly in my view people like that are lesser and lesser to be found in America.
What about those nice women nurses and hospital workers who helped you when you were giving birth to your last child?
You were going to post about that and you never did.
Krissa,
I can’t answer for those women. The point of the article is that the church should be teaching that women have their first and glorious calling to family and home.
There have always been women to assist other women in childbirth, even before it was possible to make a full-time career out of it. Perhaps that’s the ideal; still, the article makes a valid and accurate point, I think, without making a hard and fast blanket statement against all working women.
(For example…the natural birth instructor that assisted me was a woman whose children were both grown. Even though I think women with grown children still have a multitude of ministry within the realm of home and community, and therefore can be hindered by a full-time career, this nurse may have been a part-time nurse who ministered in this way. I don’t have a problem with that.)
This is such a thorough, eye-opening and excellent article. Thank you for re-posting, Kelly.
I found Stacy’s article interesting in the fact that Jennie Chancey already wrote about this before they co-authored their book together. http://www.visionforumministries.org/issues/family/jennie_chancey_responds_to_tit.aspx
Either it is sin for a woman to work outside the home or it isn’t. Which is it?
“Either it is sin for a woman to work outside the home or it isn’t. Which is it?”
I don’t think it is and most agree, but obviously not everyone does. Jennie and Stacy are not required to agree on everything; they have two separate brains, you know.
Stacy’s acknowledged that she and Jennie disagree about this issue, Carmelita.
I had never seen where she disagreed. And yes, I know they have two different brains. What you do not know Jennifer is that I am in a very shaky place right now. I am ready to throw up my hands and quit. I miss my “old” life.
Sorry for my impatience; I guess I worried that this article would receive more criticism than anything else. I’m sorry for your struggle. Are you a working mom?
Carmelita, is there anything I can do to help? I don’t know what your “old” life was, but please let me know if there’s something I might be able to do. You can click on my name and send an e-mail via the contact us form on the site. It’d be good to put “For Tricia” in the subject line if you remember.
God bless you, dear sister.
No, I am a stay at home mom who misses the working world. I guess that makes me a bad person. I was a paralegal (criminal defense and family law) before getting married and had several great friends who I was close to. Since getting married and moving several times since then (hubby’s job has us moving every couple of years) I haven’t had the close friendships that I had before. I used to go out every Monday to Applebee’s with friends. Then we would go out on Thursday’s and some weekends. And to be honest, I miss that. It was just five years ago that I was doing this. It seems forever.
Oh, I’m sorry Carmelita. It does not make you a bad person at all; God created many women to do things besides be homemakers (this does not make “only” homemakers any less valuable/intelligent, it’s just the variety of His design). Is there no way your schedule would allow another job? Perhaps until then, you could find a group from church or elsewhere to get together with.
Carmelita,
Might I suggest that a stay-at-home mom can still enjoy occasional outings with friends while cultivating rich relationship within her family as well, and building relationships with other families that all can enjoy together?
I guess your comment is one of the many ways that I see conflicts of interest between family and the career world. The very relationships seem to pull at each other and compete. What is the most “fun” is not necessarily where we are meant to be; but I think home can become the center of our enjoyment as we believe more and more in our importance there. Being home is hard sometimes, but understanding how crucial my role here is has made the paycheck and pats on the back from my former job pale in comparison.
Here’s a bit of advice from a thought I had this week…think about what it is that you love to do–your creative outlet that makes you feel alive, and then find a way to make that a part of your life that blesses those people the closest to you.
Hoping to encourage, not criticize.
I am a stay at home mom, and I don’t have home business and I don’t sell anything from home.
I’m all about women doing something from home in order to pay off debt or to make it through a hard time, but I think that can be a slippery slope. The Proverbs 31 women had a home business, but she also had servants to help her with the rest of her household. We do not.
I have girls, but if/when we have or adopt boys, I will be training them to solely provide for their families, without a single dime coming from their wife. That means boys need to be trained how to take care and maintenance a home/cars/appliances so they don’t break and need expensive repairs, the skills to have a successful career and other skills that would bring in extra money in times of need.
I don’t bring in any money to our household, I expect my husband to do that. I am a good steward of our finances and my household. I cook from scratch, we only have one car, one cell phone, no cable, I shop garage sales and re-purpose things instead of buying new. That is my way of contributing to the household. I expect my husband to be just as creative in order to bring sufficient income into the house. That is his full time job.
The article was true, but I hope we have just as many articles about raising our children to be Debt free and to consume less stuff, so providing for a family will not be a burden. It’s hard to make enough money to support a family on one income if that family has 100,000 in student loans, credit card debt, car loans, and ridiculous cell phone bills. And we need to teach our girls how to take care of their household, and Boys need to be taught how to be the Sole and Only providers in their families. Boys need to start saving their money so when they get married they have a nice savings.
Now if that isn’t possible for a family to do bc they did not start out right, then a home business would be the best and ideal situation to bring things back to order. But let’s not have the home business be the ideal situation. Being debt free before marriage and having a good savings is the ideal. That way any time that might be devoted to trying to earn more money, could be spent on serving neighbors.
Now when my husband has his own business, which is his plan, I can’t wait to have my older children be apart of that. They will learn so much! But when a family has little kids, trying to find ways to make extra money can take away a lot of time away from home-keeping.
Kelly I can’t wait to read about the family entrepreneur!
Natasha,
I agree very much with your statement: “Being debt free before marriage and having a good savings is the ideal.” and the importance of preparing our children to be financially stable before they are married and to have a proper understanding (*fear*
of debt.
One word though that you said, which I hear often about the Proverbs 31 woman…she had servants but so do we.
My servants are my dishwasher, my washing machine, oven, bread maker, etc.
You are right that we have to be very cautious where home business is concerned; in my opinion, the ideal home business involves the whole family working together in some aspect.
In our situation, because we DO suffer from debt, business loss and a poor beginning, we approached the home business thing very carefully. I still get criticized for it, though we’ve been very careful about the way it’s done.
I’ve always loved to write and wrote in a journal extensively before I began blogging. As I blogged and the blog grew, I discovered that a customer base was already there and I could spend a minimal amount of time placing product pages and creating products (we were already making homemade skin products). The ebooks we have were written over time, as I found time. (It helps that I’m a really fast writer and typer.) It did take some time to get the blog set up and tweaked which I had some help with.
I trained and hired another family with older children to take over the production of our skin products so that I don’t handle that anymore. Now, I’m back to mainly just writing again. Sometimes during naps, sometimes late at night when I can’t sleep, and sometimes when the children are busy with their own projects. Just as any woman who has hobbies or enjoys her favorite activities, this is mine. I do little else “extra”.
I say all that to clarify and encourage moms who do need to earn income from home that it is something we have to be very careful with and it can never be something that takes precedent over our main responsibilities, but I believe Proverbs 31 still gives us a clear and beautiful picture of a productive woman using her natural gifts to bless her family with extra income.
Off now for a nature hike.
“The Proverbs 31 women had a home business, but she also had servants to help her with the rest of her household”
The Proverbs 31 woman was more than one woman.
I don’t think the note of fear in your words is necessary, Natasha.
Jennifer,
How exactly is the Proverbs 31 woman “more than one woman”? The entire passage uses the words “wife”, “she”, and “her”. The last verse uses the word “woman”. These are all singular nouns and pronouns.
I understand this is the ideal woman but I don’t see where it is multiple women. One thing I will point out is that there is no time frame in this passage. Meaning that these accomplishments would have been spread over the lifetime of this woman.
Anyway, just wondering where the idea of it being multiple women comes from?
Hi, Katie. I just looked up the passage in one of Liz Curtis Higgs’s books about the Proverbs 31 woman which I was quoting from, and she explains that the woman was never one woman, or any particular woman in existence; she, or it, was basically a LIST of Godly attributes.
While I agree that this was probably not a real woman and that this is a list of attributes that should be aspired to as a Godly woman, I do believe that all these attributes can be cultivated and achieved by the modern woman. Many of these attributes are taught in other passages of scripture.
I think our modern lifestyles are equal to having servants. If you’ve ever tried to prepare a meal from scratch, without electricity, you might marvel how women ever had time for anything else. IMO, the reason we as modern women can’t seem to get it all done has more to do with the things we include in our daily lives (tv, internet, social functions, hobbies, etc) and the loss of help by extended families.
The Proverbs 31 woman is the sort of girl that Prince (and later King) Lemuel’s Momma (the Queen) said to find in order to have an excellent wife… and future queen.
Sure women can emulate those traits today; I agree with that, Katie. God wouldn’t give us such vital guidelines only for a while. Praise Him
I need a prayer please, ladies. I’ve been without both my anti-anxiety meds and my hormone pills for a few days, so issues that I already feel strongly about to the point of anxiety are kind of like sharp ice picks to my heart right now. Thank you and God bless.
“My servants are my dishwasher, my washing machine, oven, bread maker, etc.”
Whoa can’t believe I’d never thought of that before!
The proverbs 31 woman was more than one woman? Well that makes me feel better
I would rather have servants than a dishwasher or breadmaker any day
And just a thought I have been thinking about, we have all these helpful appliances yet we still accomplish the same things in the same amount of time that a pioneer woman did. I have an awesome washing machine that can wash like 20 pairs of jeans…yet I still am doing laundry constantly. Why? Bc when washing became easier for the housewife, the family just bought more clothes. Everyone has a dishwasher now, but still people talk about the endless amount of dishes, prob bc now we have a dozen plastic sippy cups with a dozen different lids, and every new toddler dinnerware that Gerber comes out with. We got a dishwasher, but then we just bought more things to wash. My best friends husband was annoyed that his wife wasn’t able to keep up with the dishes, so instead of telling his kids to step up and do the dishes, he just bought his wife another dishwasher. They have TWO dishwashers. They only have two kids. I know that is a little off subject, but lately I have really been going through my house and getting rid of all the stuff. Now i have my girls wear aprons to keep their dresses clean so they can wear them a couple days, and I am really trying to get rid of all the excess stuff. Like now I am only going to buy really good quality clothes. I’m tired of wasting time buying new clothes bc the ones I have are falling apart, what a waste of time and money.
Kelly-
I have read why you started your business and I think it is great, bc older children can learn so much from helping out with a family business, and I am sure they love contributing to the family. This is the way it should be. Good for you for being creative and finding a way to help pay off debt without sacrificing your family. I hope your response was more for other readers and not me, bc I wrote my reply about the home business with you as a good example in mind. I hope I did not offend you, it was not my intent, but just to point out if we don’t do it a certain way ( like you do) a home business can get in the way of family. But if it is done like you do and other women it benefits the whole family, esp older children. And if it a woman who is working outside the home is blaspheming the word of God, then so is her husband for not having control over his household.
I am just noticing more women doing home businesses and I don’t see the difference between that and working outside the home, if the home business does not involve the whole family. women who work have really taken the pressure off men to be the sole providers. Men my husband works with love having their wives work, they buy harleys and boats with the extra income. They just can’t believe my husband “lets” me stay home. They have no pressure to provide.
we are used to a certain way of life, and as someone said here, what would you do without all those nurses who helped you in the hospital? That gets me thinking. Sure women have been having babies without full time paid Nurses, But their babies didn’t have a chance if they were born too early or had a health problem. NICU nurses are mostly women. If women stayed home, then who would take care of all the premie babies? Or who would help the surgeon in the OR when a child needed medical attention? I say this out of actual curiosity, not malice. Do you think that would open up the field to more men to be nurses? And all the other jobs women hold, what would we do if they stayed home? ( Obv the world would be a better place) but I am curious how things would change today.
Jennifer- I don’t understand what you wrote about my words of fear.
“The proverbs 31 woman was more than one woman? Well that makes me feel better”
Doesn’t it?
I just felt, Natasha, that you were being a little too fearful in your words that even a home business might be a bad idea in case the whole family’s not involved. Women are meant to take care of family, but this doesn’t mean we don’t have our own minds and hearts; we were created to do different things and these things don’t require the children to be appendages, physically or mentally, in order to be Godly. And thank God; if they did I’d go mad. Children have our hearts, they do not share our brains. I.e., we’re still individual beings with jobs to do that don’t involve the children or anyone else 100%, every second or every thought of the day. (And please, nobody ask me for a disclaimer here; I think you can get what I mean without one).
Huh. I don’t really see the need for more female obgyns. I guess it doesn’t bother me to have a male doctor even for the female stuff. And for childbirth purposes, there are always Doulas. I’m talking about not having females in health care like on the intensive care unit, cardiology, surgery room etc. A lot more men would have to be interested in becoming a nurse, which would be a great thing.
Jennifer- That is my opinion and I don’t believe I was trying to instill fear into anyone. I try to choose my words carefully so I am not seen as a big bully.
I also don’t think I need to work outside the home in order to use my brain. I don’t mind having my children attached to me 24/7.
Maybe it’s not our place to say what other women should be doing. We should just be teaching them to be good moms and wives and homekeepers. God can convict and guide the husband to have a balanced family life, because ultimately the husband is responsible for what goes on in his household. That way we are not constantly telling women ” stay home don’t work” or ” stay home but make sure you do something besides take care of your family so you don’t loose your identity and become stupid” or ” go to work full time and take the kids to daycare”
There are plenty of male nurses as it is, Natasha, and the only reason there would be a need for more is male patients.
“I’m talking about not having females in health care like on the intensive care unit, cardiology, surgery room etc”
Do you mean major doctors, or nurses? Female nurses are a must, for things like catheters, sponge baths, and shaving before surgery; the idea of only having males for these things when it comes to female patients is revolting beyond belief. We most certainly need female doctors and nurses, especially in the ICU. I DO mind not having women there, and so do millions of others. Talking to a male about one’s sex life, periods, private infections? NO, not me. Female nurses and doctors are also vital for raped patients, but then I can’t imagine anyone arguing with that. And the comforting thing is that nothing said here will change anything about our doctors.
You’re right, we don’t have any business telling other women what to do, not extra-Biblically.
I have a wonderful male OB/GYN and feel completely fine talking to him about my sex life, periods, and other female issues. He also has one male nurse who is great. I don’t think it has anything to do with gender but with their personalities and compassion. All my friends also see male doctors.
I just wanted to point out that I don’t know a woman who is revolted by seeing a male doctor or nurse.
I think I was very clear, Katie. It’s not about seeing a male nurse or doctor PERSE; it’s about having them do every personal thing for a woman. There are thousands of women who don’t like the idea of seeing male medical people on the most personal of issues. Gender DOES matter; quite obviously there’s a difference between a man helping a woman in female matters or a woman doing so, just as there’s a difference between a woman or man helping a man with prostate issues. I’m not saying male OBGYNs are a sin, but I was very clear that I, and many others, are not comfortable with them; the fact that not everyone agrees is irrelevant, since I’m speaking of the import of having women in the medical field at ALL. And matters like rape victims? Catheters, shaving, adult diapers? Yes, the idea of men in there with female patients IS revolting, and there’s no arguing it with me; I feel too strongly about it and I can’t imagine anyone protesting the dire need for women in THOSE situations anyway.
I would never go to a male OBGYN. My life choices may mean ‘feminist’ to some but I come from a very conservative, non dating, arranged marriage mostly culture. My native country has lots of religions, Most women will never go to a male OBGYN. Many women of many religions in my native country would not even show their faces to any other man other than their husbands,brothers and father. What would happen to these women without any female doctors ? They died unnecessarily. My native country was colonized by the British and many British missionaries were also doctors. There are so many medical institutions started by them today that outlive them. Women play a big part in medicine in parts of the world especially the developing world and where males and females are segregated by culture, religion etc. If there were no female doctors in those cultures, the result would be like Afghanistan under the Taliban. WHere women die.
Thank you for your input, Sylvia; you’re absolutely right about the vitality of female doctors for so many reasons. I wasn’t raised as conservatively as you or those foreign women at all, for me it’s just a very personal thing. In pelvic exams, it’s the most naked you’ve been in “public” since birth (for most people) and it’s the most vulnerable position imaginable, not to mention the breast exam. No matter how professional doctors are, gender does matter; men and women are simply different. I’d much rather have not only a woman for the exam, but a woman to talk to about private things and a woman’s reassuring voice through the process. I’m very grateful to God for the presence of BOTH male and female doctors and nurses. I’m very happy there are more male nurses for the sake of male patients. Men are very vulnerable during their most personal exams too, and it might surprise some people how many men are uncomfortable with the idea of women doing those exams.
Natasha B.,
I too have wondered about women nurses and doctors, and what good they do. Years ago, before women went to doctors to have babies, other women assisted in the birth. Now, because we don’t want women working, we are going to male doctors. But I wonder, is that really good? Did God intend women or men to assist a birth? Do women only do it if it is not at a hospital where they have a “job”? These are all questions I struggle with. I admit, my doctor is a woman. I started with a man, who made me extremely uncomfortable. I didn’t like the idea of a man, other than my husband “down there”. But I also think women need to be at home with their children… So I’m back to square one. What part do women play in todays medical field?
“But I also think women need to be at home with their children… So I’m back to square one”
Not really. Even women who are dubious about other women working go to female doctors, and there are plenty of midwives who work at home.
Women play a vital part in the medical field; we are natural birthers, nurturers and healers. Regardless of this issue, women clearly DO play a major part, whether we approve or not. This is one of the reasons I HATE the argument some make against women working, throwing women into a quandary about whether it’s okay for women to even professionally help other women in medical matters, for cripe’s sakes. Or dare do anything outside the home. The entire idea that women be required to go to a male for intimate matters is bogus; were it not for female doctors, I’d be forever sterile. No man’s delivering my babies or seeing parts of me that not even my husband would likely see. This shouldn’t be an issue, not when it comes to women healers at LEAST.
I am interested to see how my next youngest sister works this out.
Sadly, the youngest of us, while she always wanted to be at home, put herself in the position that she can’t, by having a baby out of wedlock and deciding not to marry the father.
But the other sister believes she is called to be a doctor. She is also a devout Catholic, essentially QF (she takes Catholic teaching seriously and believes NFP is only for the most dire of circumstances, and not to be a lifestyle choice to limit family size), domestically inclined, and soon to be married. We have talked and she has told me that they will be open to children from the beginning, even as she is starting med school this year. I think she will probably struggle with this, but between herself and her soon-to-be husband will work things out so that the children are not raised in daycare. She actually chose the medical program she is in, and was willing to wait and reapply next year if she didn’t get in rather than go to another school, because it allows her to do independent study and doesn’t keep her tied to a lecture schedule. And she chose that because she knew being open to children might mean a baby very early on in her med-school life, and that the baby would need her.
I can’t say that she’s setting up for sin there. She’s going to be earning an income. And she’s going to be the type of doctor that we types of ladies adore–believing mostly the same things, positive about homeschooling, and doesn’t believe there is a point where a family has “too many” children. She will very likely end up in private practice where her own children are welcome, or as a very part-time doctor who is raising her own kids, managing the home, and ministering to other families like hers through medicine.
[...] wife & I were talking about a post she read at Generation Cedar, a favorite of hers. It was about the Scripture quoted above, and whether not working in the home [...]
Sorry ladies, I posted this already up higher than I meant to; I meant for it to be down here where it can be easily seen.
I need a prayer please. I’ve been without both my anti-anxiety meds and my hormone pills for a few days, so issues that I already feel strongly about to the point of anxiety are kind of like sharp ice picks to my heart right now. Thank you and God bless.
Jennifer-
I have hormone problems too, i am 28 years old and have really really low progesterone and estrogen, and all sorts of thyroid issues. I hope you feel better, and when you are without your meds maybe stay off the computer
You don’t need any more stress. Protect your emotional health when you don’t have the meds you need. Hope you can sit outside and enjoy some fresh air and peace. Blessings and get better 
Thank you for your sweetness understanding, Natasha
I appreciate your patience in the discussion too and hope my vehemence didn’t seme like anger towards you. I do intend to take it easy emotionally, and the cup of camomile tea last night has helped!
Couple of things jumped out at me here. The first is about the Proverbs 31 woman. I have always thought this was a snapshot of this woman’s entire life. Taken in the context of the time when it was written, the chances of a nursing mother with little ones underfoot selling goods in the market place isn’t realistic. Also, babies don’t usually rise up and call their mother blessed. There is also the passage about fleeting beauty (a sign of an older woman). This makes it highly unlikely that this woman, or any woman, could be all of this at any one time. If we read it that way, no wonder Christian women feel such pressure!
But what I really wanted to comment on was this issue of a woman as a homemaker and what that means, becuase I enjoyed Stacy’s post, added it to my Delicious links list, and didn’t find it contradictory at all.
Is it a sin for a woman to work outside the home? The first order of business is “what does her husband have to say about it?” The phrase “keeper at home” appears once in Scripture. The command to submit to and respect her husband is repeated several times. So if the husband (whatever my personal opinion)has determined that the family is best served by the wife working outside the home, then she cannot possibly be in sin by submitting to him.
Additionally, I have come to use this as my standard for whether something is Biblically true: Is it true in any place and any time for all believers? For example, German parents can’t homeschool and Chinese women can’t be Quiverfull. These are good and godly things, but are not an effective gauge of one’s faith.
What of young widows and single mothers? Are they disqualified from a godly inheritance because they feel compelled to work outside the home? (And yes, I know the Bible says the young widow is to remarry, but some man has to ask her first, and in the menatime, the kiddos have to eat). For something to be Biblically true, it needs to hold up outside of middle class, Main St. USA.
Now don’t misunderstand me here. Anyone who has read my blog extensively (and that certainly includes you Ace, for sure), knows how passionately I feel about women being at home managing and tending to the needs of their families.
But I think for many women, past sins resulting in mountains of debt (the Bible has something to say about that, too!), and husbands who are conditioned by society to expect two-incomes make this an issue of the heart first and foremost. It is possible, if incredibly difficult, to make a home and have a heart turned toward home even if a wife can’t be there full time at present. One of the women who taught me the most about homemaking, organizing the house, scheduling chores, etc., was a woman who had a full-time job so that she could carry health insurance when her husband decided to strike out as an entrepeneur. She taught me, and I was at home full time! I was amazed at how God multiplied this woman’s time and blessed her homemaking, but I’m sure it was in large part due to the reverence she showed her husband.
I think that was Stacy’s point: that being a homemaker is more than just the physical state of being there, though I do believe it is all but impossible to watch well over the ways of your household if you’re rarely in the house!
But to be there, with a discontented, ungrateful heart, in rebellion against your husband and lacking in joy blasphemes God’s word, too!
Prayers for your relief and comfort, Jennifer.
Many thanks for your sweetness, Terry
I’ve been out of the loop on this discussion but was going to write a summary comment today and Terry has well-articulated most of the points I had.
I know that Stacy has the heart I do for women being keepers at home and that we both feel it is incredibly difficult to keep a home/family well with a full time job elsewhere. I know she would agree this is NOT an ideal situation.
I think the point of her post was to clear up a common confusion about the passage. One that admittedly, became clearer to me after some study.
It is not the woman herself who blasphemes God’s Word BY breaking a “Titus 2 rule”. It’s that she gives occasion for the adversary to do so. We know this because of a few verses later…
“Likewise”…”in the same way”, so that “in the same way” the opponent will have nothing evil to say.
Stacy’s explanation was not a license for the career woman. Without a doubt, we fully believe that Titus 2 should be taught and lived. But I think this verse has encouraging implications for a woman, like Terry said, who finds herself in dire circumstances until they can be remedied. We are to teach the ideal, strive for the ideal, and do all we can to uphold the ideal traits of a Titus 2 woman so that our families reflect God’s glory and the opponents are put to shame.
Sadly, we can see the predicted damaging results of what happens when women choose to leave the home en masse.
Hello Kelly! Thank you for so much for sharing my article and for clarifying it so well for your readers! I think it’s an important topic because so often we try to create a wooden “rule” out of a principle. We need to learn to study the beauty of the living Word and understand the spirit of the teaching.
Yes, it is obviously crucial that all of Titus 2 is taught to the Church, and that when women reject or neglect the home for outside pursuits (or anything else), or when the church fails to support women and teach these truths, we contribute to the slander of God’s name among the heathen. But that isn’t a blanket judgment on all women who work outside the home. We can’t know what God is doing in each person’s life – he is surely sovereign.
Thank you again for that article, Stacy!
A couple of points here…
(1) I’ve taken the liberty of copying Titus 2:4-5 from 4 current Bible translations to capture some of the nuances of this verse, especially the phrase about what older women are supposed to teach younger women about their responsibilities within the home:
NIV (New International Version)
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4 Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.
NLT (New Living Translation)
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4 These older women must train the younger women to love their husbands and their children, 5 to live wisely and be pure, to take care of their homes, to do good, and to be submissive to their husbands.
NRSV (New Revised Standard Version)
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4 so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 to be self-controlled, chaste, good managers of the household, kind, being submissive to their husbands, so that the word of God may not be discredited.
NASB (New American Standard Bible)
4 so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored.
As others have pointed out, Titus 2:4-5 describes a woman’s responsibilities in the home but don’t preclude any activities outside the home as long as her work within the home is taken care of. Personally, I don’t know any woman who works outside the home who is not busy at home, or who doesn’t strive to be a good manager of her household, etc. And where does the Bible say that a husband can’t pitch in with housework, grocery shopping, etc.?
Personally, IMHO (and it is a very HO), the division of labor within and without of the home is a private matter between a husband and wife and God. And of course, at different times through the years of marriage it can change. I had a friend who called herself a “refrigerator nurse”. No, she wasn’t cold or unfriendly to her patients. What she meant was that when they need money for an unplanned item in their budget (like a new refrigerator), she would work 2-3 shifts per/week until she’d earned the money they needed; then she’d quit until there something else came up. So she worked within the home much, much more than she did outside the home.
And there is job sharing if you are fortunate enough find a position that allows it. Speaking of doctors, as others did above, my primary care doctor is a young mother with a girl about to enter kindergarten this fall and and a 2.5 year old. She works Tuesday, Thursday, and every other Friday. She shares her position with another female physician with young children who works Monday, Wednesday, and every other Friday. My doctor’s parents don’t live far from her and her husband’s home and are her daughters’ usual caregivers.
You all probably know as many creative women and their families who have enabled a woman to bring in some income without compromising the quality of their children’s life.
I’m also so thankful that Stacy and Kelly have clarified the fact that women who must work outside the home are not sinful. Hopefully, that allows some readers here to drop their false guilt about their current situation.
I will close with a tribute to all the women who don’t work outside the home and sometimes are painted with the stereotype that they really don’t work — why, they’re just staying home. What nonsense! All of you (probably the majority of the readers of this blog know how ridiculous that is). Hats off to you!!!