Population Decline: The Fall of Nations

I’m no scholar; but the common sense within me keeps asking,”Where has the common sense of the masses gone?”  It’s not rocket science.

“Oh, let’s give no heed to tomorrow, let’s live for today and enjoy our lives. Birth control rocks.” “Oops…seems we’ve made a bad decision…a population decline that likely cannot be reversed. That means a fallen civilization. Hmmm…that’s really bad news.”

But wait, more irrationality will ensue:

“Here she goes again…writing another post about birth control to defend her choices. Why can’t she just live her life and let everyone else live theirs?”

Really?  So it couldn’t have anything to do with real, widely publicized concerns about how our “personal” choices aren’t so personal, and so greatly affect our nation–the one in which my children and grandchildren will grow up?  If I ever got a tattoo, I think it would say, “because your choices affect me…a lot.” I “meddle” for bigger reasons than myself…and you should too.

“Depopulation is, thus, a truly genuine and notable crisis of disastrous proportions whose ultimate magnitude is still not completely known; the massive birth dearth is, therefore, quite undoubtedly real, not an extravagant exaggeration of supposedly overworked imaginations.”

The so evident destruction of society, culture, and civilization can be, however, prevented if the true cause for such pandemic devastation is plainly made better known. World Population Implosion is Real

Overpopulation?  Where do they get this stuff?  And why?  And why do we believe it?  Can we not do simple math?  Or does believing a lie just make it convenient to live for ourselves?

“Most people think overpopulation is one of the worst dangers facing the globe. In fact, the opposite is true. As countries get richer, their populations age and their birthrates plummet. And this is not just a problem of rich countries: the developing world is also getting older fast. Falling birthrates might seem beneficial, but the economic and social price is too steep to pay.”

“In the USA, where nearly one-fifth of Baby Boomers never had children, the hardship of vanishing retirement savings will be compounded by the strains on both formal and informal care-giving networks caused by the spread of childlessness. A pet will keep you company in old age, but it is unlikely to be of use in helping you navigate the health care system or in keeping predatory reverse mortgage brokers at bay.  Philip Longman, secular liberal The Global Baby Bust

Deuteronomy 30:5 says, “The LORD your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it; and He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers.” Notice the language of Scripture contradicts ours.  The words “prosper” and “multiply” usually aren’t found in the same sentence in our vocabulary.

“Longman says we should all be asking ourselves why nations would choose decline and death. You could understand why people in the poorest countries would forego large families, but why is it that, in the richest societies the world has ever known, the birthrate decline is the most severe?”

Read more: Population Decline:  The Fall of Nations

These statistics reveal an overall concern for our civilization, acknowledged even by the liberal media with no religious, “ulterior motive”. Apply it to the impact (or lack thereof) of Christianity for a completely different debate.

“The putrid pursuit of materialism unbounded leads to nihilism accepted and the proposition of death required by its own integral and Nietzschean logic; deliberate sterility is a prerequisite for, ironically, that joyless joy.”  World Population Implosion…

Longman also wrote a book called, The Empty Cradle–linked here is a succinct article about it.

60 Responses to “Population Decline: The Fall of Nations”

  1. Christie P says:

    Thank you for the reminder to raise my head above the laundry pile, the dirty dishes, the pile of homeschool books and see that all of this work does have broader, bigger consequences and rewards. Yes, I know it’s to the glory of God, but it’s nice to be reminded how each of my little pebbles will create ripples that affect the rest of society in a very real way.

  2. J says:

    Gosh, I don’t see what terrible thing can happen if the birth rate declines. There’ll be enough clean water and food for everyone? Wars will no longer be fought over oil and clean water? There’ll be a surplus of resources.

    Of course, as your author points out, caretakers for the elderly will be overworked (for one generation.) However, even this is not a problem. In a free market system, that just means that salaries will rise and more people will go into that field. End of “problem.”

    There’s no other “problem” mentioned, as a result of underpopulation. Perhaps they can’t think of any?

    BTW, unless you have traveled in a third world country, you cannot see the devastation that is caused by the lack of clean water and arable land. We are insulated from this in our country. Unless you have been to India or China, you cannot visualize the overcrowding and terrible living conditions, the poverty and pollution, caused by too many people and not enough space.

    • Word Warrior says:

      J,

      Oh, gee. If the crisis isn’t obvious, you should probably do some research.

      1. “Largely because of this imbalance, population aging, once it begins creating more seniors than workers, puts severe strains on government budgets.”

      2. “Population aging also depresses the growth of government revenues. Population growth is a major source of economic growth: more people create more demand for the products capitalists sell, and more supply of the labor capitalists buy. Economists may be able to construct models of how economies could grow amid a shrinking population, but in the real world, it has never happened. A nation’s GDP is literally the sum of its labor force times average output per worker. Thus a decline in the number of workers implies a decline in an economy’s growth potential.” http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/population/pc0044.htm

      3. “A declining population due to low fertility rates will also be accompanied by population ageing which can contribute problems for a society. This can adversely affect the quality of life for the young is an increased social and economic pressure in the sense that they have to increase per-capita output in order to support an infrastructure with costly, intensive care for the oldest among their population…”

      4. On a spiritual level, which should greatly alarm Christians, as it is now, America will become an Islamic nation within several decades.

      Just to name a few. The domino effects are of a large magnitude, which is why suddenly, many countries are instilling “population growth incentives” to try to reverse the trend they know will devastate their country.

      Poverty in other countries isn’t due to overpopulation, btw.

    • Erin says:

      J,
      Demographic Winter, a decidedly secular documentary, is available on Youtube. It would be worth your time to watch as the social and economic consequences of depopulation are made quite clear. It is shocking to me that people are not shouting this information from the rooftops.

      • elizabeth says:

        Demographic Winter is excellent. I highly recommend.

        • Sarah F says:

          Thank you so much for the heads up! I’ve long wanted to watch DW but it wasn’t available on youtube when I last checked.
          I plan to watch it with my husband. We had a long chat last night about birth control, population ‘explosions’, falling birthrates. He thinks I’m a crackpot for believing what I do ~ that we should be having babies!

      • Lori says:

        I also thank you for the heads up! I had been wanting to see it for a while myself. Just finished it. Thanks!

    • Margaret D says:

      J, what is your answer to someone like my husband, who was born and raised in rural East Africa, and suffered the very things you mention [b]and yet believes that children are blessings, humanity is our own best resource, and the problems of the world will not be solved by mass voluntary sterilization[/b]?

      Population density does *not* have to mean poverty and devastation. Singapore, for instance. How the government is run, and certain cultural attitudes, make a huge, huge difference in whether a population is going to succeed or fail. Africa’s problem is not it’s babies.

  3. Daisy says:

    Not trying to be a conspiracy theorist here, but I honestly do believe that natural disasters do depopulate. Government wants to kill off people in order to control the mass to accept their agenda-Antichrist. There is a reason why the media and entertainment world sends out the message that they do.

    Did you know the weather can also be controlled? Check out haarp.

    This stuff sounds crazy, but until one research it their own self your eyes will be open to a whole new life.

  4. Sarah F says:

    Hi Kelly, I wanted to encourage you with some experiences in my own life. Three christian friends of mine and their husbands have each had their eyes opened to the Lord wanting Christians to have babies! For each couple this has meant ditching birth control and leaving their family sizes entirely in God’s hands. Two of them don’t have it easy – she has poor circulation and gets very bruised legs during pregnancy (she told me she has a new body waiting for her in Heaven!) Another is in a very hard financial situation at the moment with her husband’s salary barely covering their monthly bills (sometimes they don’t have enough). But she trusts in the Lord that they are living His will for them.
    I just wanted you to know about these three dear ladies as God seems to be doing a work in young Christian couples hearts in my circle, concerning trusting him for family size. We’ve seen the choices that our parents generation made regarding children and we are convicted that it is a departure from Scripture. It’s very exciting to think of the ripple effect that the testimony of these three couples will have (I personally am not in a position right now to follow my conscience, but I pray in God’s time).

    • Darcy M. says:

      Kelly,

      What a wonderful post. Thank you for sharing it. So many people need to hear this. I’m thinking of you this week as you await your sweet baby’s arrival!

      Sarah F.,

      Your reply encouraged me this morning. We have five young children and if God allows we will have more (my hubby says just one more) Like your friend I have very poor circulation when I am pregnant and my legs ache terribly (and look awful). I loved what she said about having a new body waiting for her in heaven. I may have to start using that if the Lord blesses us with another pregnancy!

      Have a blessed day!

      • Sarah F says:

        I’m so pleased you’ve been encouraged by my sharing that! My friend’s legs are covered in bruises. She wears special support tights designed for this problem. They’re pricey but help massively. Perhaps it’s something you could look into. God bless.

        • Darcy M. says:

          Sarah,

          Thank you so much for thinking of me and taking the time to recommend the stockings. I do use them when I am pregnant. Fortunately when I am not pregnant my legs do not bother me in the least so I don’t have to wear them.

          Blessings,
          Darcy

      • Kelly L says:

        I know this is not a health blog. But my friend also had the same problem. She took Evening Primrose Oil and it helped tremendously. Maybe ask God if it is good for you?
        The only thing is stop taking it at week 36 or so. Because it helps circulation a lot, it makes for a faster delivery, sometimes super fast.

  5. Katie Grace says:

    Leaders around the world are starting to realize the devastation brought by underpopulation. China has a real problem on their hands because of the lack of young women because of their “one-child policy”. European countries, Russia, Japan – they all are offering incentives for couples to have a second or third child. Unfortunately, there are very few takers.

    We are not raising young adults to want to have families. Some see children as accessories instead of blessings. Even when Christians see children as blessings, they want to limit their blessings!

    Last night we went to the grocery store as a family. A cart full of children (2, 1 and new) and a cart full of groceries. The prices on some of the staples had risen since last week. Even with careful planning and coupons our bill was huge. My husband’s response was, “What else are we going to do with the money?” In other words, if we weren’t spending our money on our children (groceries, clothing, etc) we would spend it on other things (vacations, vehicles, recreation, etc.)

    We came to the realization to let God control the size of our family from a very different place – infertility. A decade of barreness led us to choose to never use any birth control. We now have 3 under 3 and couldn’t be happier. We know this was God’s plan for our family. I pray more Christians see the beauty of a large family. In our church and community, we are already a large family with 3 and people think we’re crazy!

    • Margaret D says:

      Katie, my husband has the same attitude. “What am I working for, if not for the children?” :D I am so grateful for him.

  6. Kelly,
    Keep beating the drum of biblical fidelity. Every time someone looks at me funny for stating that God should be in control of our family’s size, I just tell them it is my “social security” for old age! I am truly looking to my children to honor their father and mother by caring for us when we are no longer able to care for ourselves. This means that I pray strongly and deeply for more children so that our blessings can be multiplied and our labor and sorrows divided. Thanks for your encouragement.
    The Pauper

  7. Kelly,
    I have a question here because I see huge differences depending which countries we are talking about.
    What about parents in an African village who literaly can not feed her children or buy them medicines for malaria. Should she also say no to BC?

    • Word Warrior says:

      Carolina,

      Curbing population to try to fix a problem whose roots aren’t found in numbers only *seems* logical, but it’s like putting a bandaid on a cancer…furthermore, it creates more problems longterm (like this post describes).

      Consider what Archbishop Celestino Migliore says:

      “too often population growth is viewed as the cause of poverty whereas it is a means of overcoming it, for only within the work force can the solution for poverty be found….where economic growth rates have declined, the answers lie not in trying to close society to others and pushing for population decline but rather in creating a society which is open to and encourages life.” He added, “Promoting life and the family and finding ways to integrate the contribution of all people will allow societies to realize their full potential and achieve development.”

      “University of Calgary political scientist Tom Flanagan recently spoke of the “now discredited theory that poverty in the Third World is based on overpopulation,” in comments to the National Post. “I don’t think any serious scholar believes that anymore,” he added.” http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2010/feb/10020908

      This article goes on to say that the pope defended his views with demographic evidence: “The extermination of millions of unborn children, in the name of the fight against poverty, actually constitutes the destruction of the poorest of all human beings.”

      The solution has to be found at the root of the cause or more, long-lasting problems are created.

  8. Word Warrior says:

    J,

    I did answer her question: “Overpopulation is not the cause of poverty and therefore, birth control doesn’t ‘fix’ it”.

    For one who refuses to answer MY questions, it’s bold of you to press me. You’re done here ;-)

    You need to find a blog that you enjoy and agree with. Or start your own to combat everything I speak about here.

    • I think I understand that point, but because the problems still persist and parents still cannot provide for the needs of their children, would not it be better at the long term to have less children but be able to feed those and give them medical care and education, and thus have that work force for the future, than having several ones and only see several or them die when they are young?
      I do not know anything about demographis or economy, I only see the evident: some families can only provide for a small number of children.
      Thanks for answering.

      • Jill Farris says:

        Carolina (love your name!),

        The problem with people planning their families according to their circumstances is that circumstances change and we can’t see the future. I remember visiting many old people in a nursing home who chose to have one child during the Great Depression. They were very lonely (especially if something had happened to that one child). They regretted limiting their families when times were tough.

        My husband and I joke that we know we’re pregnant when he loses a job. Every single one of our eight children have been conceived and carried during months of unemployment. We just celebrated our 29th anniversary and he bought me a “substantial” diamond ring and we have a prosperous looking family so women tell me, “If I had ‘enough’ income, I would have more” but what is “enough”? They say the same thing about their husbands btw. They say, “If I had a husband who was as good a father as yours is…I would have more” but you have to give birth to the babies and struggle through the hard work of raising them for that daddy to mature! And you don’t get the lovely mature family later on with a husband who has developed an amazing work ethic unless you choose to welcome them even when the money is almost nonexistent.

        Each baby has a purpose. It sounds terribly sad to say it but even the little babies born into impoverished homes and live for a short time touch the lives of their families and irrevocably change them.

        We who have more try to argue against birth control by looking at those who have less and questioning God but He hasn’t asked us to answer their questions for them! He wants us to stand before Him and ask Him what we should do with our bodies, marriages and lives.

        He is a great and mighty God. He didn’t make a mistake when He made our bodies able to have many children…we can trust Him.

        Jill Farris
        http://www.jillcampbellfarris.com

  9. Terri says:

    Kelly – We are seeing this first hand while living in Germany. I believe they are tied right near the bottom with Spain and Italy in regards to low birth rates. My husband works with all Germans and we have had several families over and talked about this issue with them. Surprisingly, the men in these families want more children but the women do not. They are very honest in that they want affluence and their figures (I appreciate their frankness). On the flip side, there are many Turkish (Muslim) families moving to Germany and they are having lots of children. The Germans realize this and yet the women are unwilling. I believe the Muslims now know they don’t need to try to defeat Christians militarily they just need to welcome children into their lives and then one day soon they will simply be the majority. The German government has all kinds of financial incentives but they are not working – the feminist mindset has been deeply entrenched here. Please pray for the people here. This is the birthplace of the Reformation and yet all around us we see a people completely hardened to God and His Word. This year has been such an eye opening experience for me.

  10. Macy says:

    I know that birth rates are falling in the global north, but I have never seen anything that says the population is actually decreasing overall in the world. The UN has an interesting article on the subject:http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=13451&kwi=billion8Kw2=9.1t&Kw3=

    Quite frankly, at the rate we are consuming resources we cannot carry on with the huge population growth we are experiencing: http://www.religioustolerance.org/tomek05.htm

    • Lori says:

      I’m sorry Macy, I’m not sure anyone said that “population actually decreasing all over the world.” Where did you read that? The posting states that birthrates are decreasing and populations are aging all over the world. That’s not the same thing, though it will mean the same thing in a couple generations barring divine intervention (decreasing birthrate is one of the only mathmatically predictable demographic statistics).

    • Word Warrior says:

      Macy,

      All the major industrialized nations are experiencing population decline. I was mainly referencing America in this post. (Sorry…let me correct myself. The post refers to a trend across the world, pointing to the obvious result that will take place in America if birth rates continue to decline.)

      Furthermore, one of the articles you linked (the only one I looked at) isn’t even from a Christian standpoint, using evolution to make its case. As a Christian, I wouldn’t even consider that as a reliable source for factual information. The “running out of resources” thing is an unprovable theory that some speculate is merely a fear tactic. It’s really a matter of who you are willing to believe. I believe that God created a universe that He can sustain without our engineering of the number of people in it. That doesn’t mean we aren’t careless with our resources; but “less people” is not the answer. In truth, our extravagant lifestyles (made possible, in part, by fewer children) are much more destructive to the earth’s resources than if we had more children which forces us to live more frugally and earth-friendly. That and the enormous rise in divorce (increased too, in part, by fewer children which makes it easier for couples to split) causing one household to split into two and doubling the consumption of resources. It’s all a slippery slope.

      In a twisted kind of way, I love that we are seeing the impact of our “clever choices” which are turning out not to be so clever. If it weren’t scary, it’d be funny. We hail birth control and abortion as the “answer” to so many problems only to have it turn around and bite us. That’s what happens when you forsake God’s ways.

      • Macy says:

        I am sorry I misread, I thought you were discussing the wolrd in general, not just America. Most nations in the global north are offsetting their population decline with immigration, thus their population is still increasing. Do you believe immigration is a good way to keep the population in America up?
        And just to clarify since your post was not really about this, do you believe that the global population is falling?

        That is interesting about the natural resources and I have never really thought about it like that before. I will have to think and pray about it.

        • Word Warrior says:

          Macy,

          As a Christian, no I don’t think immigration is a good way to replace the population in the US…as I mentioned somewhere else, we are fast becoming a Muslim nation for this reason. Another curse on Christians for rejecting the mandate to be fruitful and multiply.

          And yes, I believe demographers are correct in their calculations that the world’s population is declining. http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0311/p07s02-wogi.html

          • Alexis C. says:

            Actually, the vast majority of immigrants to the U.S. are Christians — specifically, Catholic Mexicans and other South and Central Americans. Of course, as a Catholic, I don’t see that as problematic — but I imagine some other denominations may disagree ;)

            Recent statistics show that only 0.8 percent of the U.S. is Muslim — there are actually twice as many Jewish Americans as Muslims. And remember that not all Middle Eastern immigrants ARE Muslim. My mother’s family is Palestinian Christian (Greek Orthodox, specifically), and here in Michigan we have a large population of Chaldeans, which are Iraqi Christians, along with Orthodox and Catholic Lebanese and Palestinians.

            • Heather says:

              Thank you for giving statistics. Phrases like “rapidly becoming a Muslim nation” are easily repeated and believed, but we have to hold them up to the light of reality.

        • Word Warrior says:

          I recorded a video briefly sharing my thoughts about the irony of how large families can be better for the environment…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XztytzW53w

          It’s been a while since I’ve watched it, but I *think* I made some of these points…perhaps it will “help you ponder” ;-)

  11. X says:

    First of all, Kelly, I’ve noticed you can be a bit sarcastic when answering people who don’t agree with you. I think as a Christian you should try to be nicer and more understanding and also more open to the opinions of others. After all, no one’s right all the time. Second, there are nearly seven billion people on Earth right now. In this year alone there have been 26.9 million births but only 11.6 million deaths. I’m pretty sure there’s no danger of depopulation.

    • Word Warrior says:

      X

      What keeps you from using a real name or email? “A bit sarcastic” is not too bad for a nine month pregnant HUMAN who gets constant hateful, angry feedback from people who read a blog they total disagree with and make it their life’s purpose to antagonize me with comments similar to yours. And besides just now, can you be more specific about where I am sarcastic?

      • X says:

        I don’t like putting personal information on the internet. I wasn’t antagonizing you and I understand that you’re human and none of us are perfect. I was simply suggesting you respond to people in a way that Jesus would, with love, patience and kindness. Not sarcasm and anger. And there are still far more births than deaths.

        • Lori says:

          I’ve been reading Kelly almost since she started this blog. She is extrememly patient, and consistantly so. I would venture to guess that you are coming in mid-conversation so to speak, and you do not know Kelly’s history w/ certain commenters that fully warrants her responses, or you would not make the half-baked answer you posted above, twice now.

          Yes, death rates are *currently* lower than birthrates. That will turn around. People keep living longer, but they will not live forever this side of heaven. When the aged finally start dying, they will start dying at shocking rates per year.

          • Lori says:

            Let’s take China for example, since it currently has the largest population of any country.

            When China started its population/family education programs right around 1950 the average life span was about 50 years old. Now the average life span in China is over 80. The people being preached at to stop having so many babies are still alive, and they never were expected to be. China now has well over 300,000,000 senior citizens (our country’s whole population), and the median age is 35. And birthrates are still only around 1.8. This means that when those 300,000,000 finally start meeting their age-induced ends (they won’t live forever), the population will rapidly drop by 300,000,000. And due to the low birthrate, China will still have an ageing population (old people outnumber young). This means that every time the oldest population group dies, the overall population will be slashed dramatically. It hasn’t started yet. It will, and in our lifetime (if you’re anywhere close to my age).

        • Word Warrior says:

          Again, can you be specific about the “sarcasm and anger”? Did Jesus always respond with love, patience and kindness to the people who were constantly trying to snare Him? I think you should be thankful I’ve toned it down a bit from His reactions ;-) I don’t actually always say what I’m thinking :-P

          “And there are still far more births than deaths.”

          Have you studied the demographics? Or do you just not want to believe the statistics? Birth rates in major countries in Europe are already below replacement. The US teeters on the verge. Where is your information coming from?

          “In the 1990s, European demographers began noticing a downward trend in population across the Continent and behind it a sharply falling birthrate. Non-number-crunchers largely ignored the information until a 2002 study by Italian, German and Spanish social scientists focused the data and gave policy makers across the European Union something to ponder. The figure of 2.1 is widely considered to be the “replacement rate” — the average number of births per woman that will maintain a country’s current population level….For the first time on record, birthrates in southern and Eastern Europe had dropped below 1.3. For the demographers, this number had a special mathematical portent. At that rate, a country’s population would be cut in half in 45 years, creating a falling-off-a-cliff effect from which it would be nearly impossible to recover.” New York Times, “No Babies”

        • X says:

          You say things like “lol” and “oh gee” when responding to people. Also I’ve read several of your other posts and sometimes the way you word things makes it sound like you’re patroninzing others or putting their opinions down, instead of trying to see where they are coming from or if they could possibly be right.

          • Lori says:

            *Gasp!* NOT LOL and “Oh gee!” Kelly, I had never noticed before how shockinly sarcastic you are. That’s it. I’m never reading here again! (shakes head in disappointment)

            Now, “X” – that’s sarcasm.

            And I’d like to add that Kelly does look at other people’s opinions and whether they could be right. But once she’s convicted of something, changing her opinion on the subject (especially when her opinion is as well supported as it is here) based on the passing stranger’s sensativities (“I feel” or “you hurt my feelings”), she’d be a wishy-washy fool.

            • Word Warrior says:

              LOL! I couldn’t comment back because, well…

              I was so relieved to see the evidence of my sarcasm. In the future,perhaps I’ll just err on the safe side:

              “Snakes! Sons of vipers! How will you escape the judgment of hell!”

          • Lori says:

            One more thing.

            I am so tired and embarrassed at all the women (and occasionally men) who evade the topic at hand, and avoid the logic posted, to talk about how they feel about a certain *percieved* emotion on the other side of the electronic divide.

            If someone makes a logical point, then it behooves you to listen to it. If they make an illogical point, then have a laugh, or pray for them, or call them out on it, as you wish. But deal with the argument at hand – not a percieved emotional intent. Anything less is anti-intellectual, and a little presumptuous.

            • Randi says:

              Well said Lori! That kind of retreating behind sentimentality drives me crazy. People pretending to be victimized by someone’s “tone” when they engage someone in debate is manipulative and cowardice. It happens over and over again among we women. It seems to be a common tactic we women use, and it truly embarasses me as a woman when I see it being used.

              And Kelly,
              I like how your hard-hitting comments convict me and make me really examine my motives and take a closer look at a topic. I was just telling my mom last night that when she reads your blog posts, never skip the comments section, because that is where the meat of it is! Keep up the good work! :-)

  12. Emily B. says:

    Dear Kelly,
    I do not Know you personally, but I have been very informed and blessed by your blog. Just want you to know that I’m offering up a prayer for you right now.
    One reader said recently, she didn’t know how you do this blog everyday, (because of the opposition- I think she was saying)and I totally agree. Often my heart really hurts for you after reading some comments. (I tend to wear my emotions on my sleeves and I think if I were you, people would just steal my joy. I admire your steadfastness.)
    May God bless your efforts & give you peace that surpasses all understanding, as you wait for your new baby.

  13. Lollie says:

    Wow, what a topic!
    While I firmly believe that ‘Be fruitful and multiple” might be good advice. It is by no means a “Command” Children are a gift from the Lord and how many gifts you would like to recieve is strictly between God, Husband and Wife. I believe that each one of us will be different, how God leads us to lead our family will not be how God leads you to lead your family. (Not including sin of course or other common sense things) For example He may lead us to Homeschool our children, He may lead another family into the mission field. Thus the great importance of Walking with Him daily so we don’t miss His direction.
    I agree that depopulation is not good.
    I don’t think the problem lies so much with couples who have a couple kids. I do think the problem lies with a belief system that puts careers before marriages, careers before child bearing. It’s also to do with our environment. We are seeing more and more cases of infertilaty, not just in women but in men too. Did you know that birth control pills can actually cause sterility? And no I didn’t just pull it out of my hat, my OBGYN told me. I am not against anyone using BC, but please do your research and find out everything that they are NOT telling you!

    • Word Warrior says:

      Lollie,

      “Good advice”?

      Many commentators would disagree and do indeed believe it is a command. I at least agree with the commentator Gill: “..and God said unto them, be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth: if this is not an express command, as the Jews understand it, for marriage and procreation of children, it seems to be more than a bare permission; at least it is a direction and an advice to what was proper and convenient for the increase of mankind…”

      I don’t care about numbers of children, just the right attitude and a recognition of God’s heart on the matter. I don’t think one Christian is “called” to have children and another is not. It’s written in our bodies to have children, just like any other bodily function. To say “I’m not called” is basically absurd, even on a biological level. Again, I don’t think it’s about numbers, but God’s people cannot deny that God intended for married couples to procreate.

      You even make the point with your facts about BC…oral contraception is the primary way we are not “fruitful and multiplying”. The curse of it can be seen in all sorts of health problems, including infertility.

      And as a result of all this, we are forced to connect the dots and see that when we don’t embrace God’s design, we pay.

      • Lollie says:

        I apologize if I offended you in anyway. Can I just point out though that God said the words “Be fruitful and Multiple” only 5 times in all of Scripture. (I am not counting the times He said “I will make you fruitful and will multiply you.”) All 5 of those times were within the first 9 Chapters of Genesis. First time was Genesis 1:22 Then again in Gen. 1: 28 He’s talking to Adam and Eve. Third in Gen 8:17 And forth Gen 9:1 and Gen.9:7 In these 2 He’s talking to Noah and his family. (I was writing out the whole verses but I think you get the point:) In my seeking the Lord what I noticed within and as a precurser to ‘being fruitful’ are the words ‘He blessed them’ I know that God has given us each His Holy Spirit. I know that He interprets scripture to us. He also gives us convictions, not condemnation. I also know that when we seek Him He will lead us into all truth. To say that “Be fruitful and multiply” is a biblical command, in the same lines as ‘thou shalt not kill’ or the same lines as Jesus said “This is what I command you that you love one another” It seems to me that when God commands us of something He uses those very words “Command” Where as with this I don’t see that word in existence. I am not trying to be nitpicky in anyway only trying to share a truth with you that God has revealed to me. If within my words resonates any feelings of condemnation, unkindness or malice, that was never my intention and not in line with the true spirit in which it was written. I write only as your humble sister who is running the good race. My first choice was to say nothing to you. I would prefer to have these types of conversations face to face over coffee/tea, then you could know the true heart of my words and that I have no ill will or intention.
        I will leave with a verse that God has often ministered to me in.
        Gal. 4:31-5:1 “So, brethren, we [who are born again] are not children of a slave woman [the natural], but of the free [the supernatural]. In [this] freedom Christ has made us free [and completely liberated us]; stand fast then, and do not be hampered and held ensnared and submit again to the yoke of slavery [which you have once put off]“

        • Word Warrior says:

          Lollie,

          Oh my, you did not offend in any way! Perhaps having a “cyber-conversation”, which hides facial expressions and tone, leaves us to guess…perhaps my comment seemed stiff? Anyway, I was just discussing flatly, with no emotions ;-)

          I understand what you’re saying. I do think we have to be very careful both ways–making non-commands “commands”, and dismissing actual commands with a “holy spirit” clause.

          And here again, this post wasn’t really about the command of being fruitful as much as it is the “principle” of being fruitful. That is, because we have mostly rejected the “whatever you want to call it” to be fruitful and multiply (and I do think God was talking to mankind, not just Adam and Noah), we are seeing the grave consequences.

          The “freedom in Christ” can get into a slippery slope, then, as our “freedom” has largely caused us to treat children as burdens, and cut off the godly seed (disregarding God’s desires expressed in Malachi 2:15). I guess this has kind of been my heart in talking about birth control. I don’t think it’s a sin to limit/space children; and yet as soon as we say that, believers heave a sigh of relief and then ask the family with more than two if “they know what causes that”. Do you get what I’m saying?

          Because we don’t teach what I feel is “God’s heart” about children, we have a universal Church who acts like it’s strange to be fruitful.

          Thank you for your thoughts, though, I totally get where you are coming from.

  14. Kate says:

    http://www.faithandfamilylive.com/magazine/big_families_are_the_new_green/

    This is a great article about large families and the environment.

  15. Alison says:

    Thank you once again for calling attention to this important issue. I am continually amazed at how little many people know regarding this issue. This is not an issue affecting just America for those who were arguing with your facts. Actually, America is doing much better than many parts of the globe. Japan and particularly China have dire circumstances already beginning to affect their countries. I can’t believe one reader said that China needs less people. I have been there, and my brother is a missionary there. The forced abortions and one-child policies have had a staggering impact on the population. Most European countries are getting dangerously low birth rates, as well. And like you mentioned, the Muslims are beginning to take over because they are wiling to have children. Some of our big cities are the same way. These are scary times indeed. Thank you for speaking (or writing) truth, as always. God bless you in the last few days of your pregnancy! :)

  16. Cassandra says:

    Hi all,

    I wholeheartedly believe that God intended for Christian families to be large, for Christians to stick with their convictions, and for us to be shining examples to the world around us. It pains me to think of denying the blessing of more children. We currently have two and I am praying for more.

    I guess I said all of that to say I have thoroughly enjoyed reading Kelly’s posts and I still cannot understand why Christians pick and choose what parts of God’s word that they’ll accept and live by. God’s word says to be fruitful and multiply, that children are a blessing and a heritage. We are enduring and have yet to endure many hardships simply because we have not embraced this command. And yes, I agree that a Muslim nation is a curse that Christians must/will deal with since we have limited the number of our offspring.

  17. Tiffany says:

    Kelly,
    I just wanted to say that I found out last week I’m expecting #3. If I hadn’t stopped taking the pill a few months back, this baby would not exsist. We planned to have more in the future on “our” time table, but God had different plans!

    Thank you for your thoughtful posts!
    Tiffany

  18. Jill Farris says:

    I had one more comment about the underpopulation problem…has anyone else noticed that America is already “older”? As a 50 year old I am seeing far more old people and far less young people than ever…and this is in a variety of states. It is a bit creepy. Phoenix has an area that goes on for miles and miles and is a city of white haired retirees. Driving through you will rarely see a child.

    I keep telling my children that when they have children this country will be even less populated with children.

    I also would like to remind other mothers of many that we must actively teach our children why we allowed God to bless us with many children if He saw fit to do it. It is easy to assume that they “get it” but we must teach them God’s view of babies.
    Jill Farris
    http://www.jillcampbellfarris.com

    • Randi says:

      I was just commenting to my husband last week that “There goes the average Aiken resident…” as I indicated a foursome strolling through our historic downtown area. All were at least sixty years, with silver hair. Children are nowhere to be found in the downtown area nowadays. Just a short decade ago, when we first moved here, the downtown area had ice cream shops and fun little gift shops where children could safely be when school let out. Now, the aging baby boomers, many of whom chose never to have children, or chose not to be actively involved in their grandchildrens if they had a child, are the majority of the population here, and let me tell you, children are NOT welcome anymore. Aiken always had a sizable retirement population, but now the retirees act toward those of us with young families as if we are the interlopers.
      So yes, Jill, I have also noticed the startling aging of our population.

  19. Katy says:

    Our country is starting to really feel the effects of this. Ask many people in the working world about the ages of the overall coworkers and those coming up in the ranks. For example, nursing is becoming a field with an overall “population” that is older and there is a nursing shortage because of the lack of youth to come in behind them and fill spots. This isn’t just nursing, it’s in most fields. I hear about joblessness in America, there are plenty of well paying jobs out there, plenty. We don’t have enough people to fill spots in so many areas of our nation. Law enforcement, health care, and the list goes on. Yes, you might have to change courses professionally, but we need the younger people looking at doing that and finding places. The problem is, we don’t have those younger people. They are becoming more scarce each decade. So, while we have “reproductive freedom”, we are also hurting as a nation because our 1.9 children we each have is not enough to fill in where the need is.

    But isn’t that how it always is. God says, “do X”. We say, “not now God, I want to do Y, and, after all, it’s my life so I have the freedom and the right to do it”. Then we complain when these types of things happen. Hmmm, maybe the CREATOR of all things, the one that knows the past, present, and future, knows what’s best. I saw up a bit that God only said to be fruitful and multiply 5 times. How many times does He have to say it? I am a parent and I would not tell my children 5 times to do anything. I expect for them to do what I say after the first request. Seems God is very loving to remind us 4 more times.

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