To My Christian Friends & Family Who Have Chosen Public School: Things I Need You to Know

I love you. Totally, completely, with a love that burns within my heart. Which is a big part of why I’m willing to risk my popularity and “likability”. True love will risk being hated for truth’s sake. I am there.

If I saw a building on fire at the 10th floor, and you were on the 3rd floor completely unaware, to drive by and not do anything would be the worst form of hatred. But to run into the building, jump up and down, if necessary, to get your attention to tell you the building was on fire–that I would do if I didn’t even like you. But remember, I *love* you.

I believe with everything in me, that the government school system is full of faults. But the worst of these–the ones that should cause us the most pause, is the open denial of God and the attempt to educate children apart from the knowledge of Him who created knowledge itself. (“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.”)

The educational system of the state, by their own admission, is NOT neutral and teaches a religion opposed to Christianity. (The Bible refers to such as “having another god before me”). It is the religion of Humanism that is taught in the classroom. (See here, here and here.) To teach a child that God doesn’t exist and that right and wrong is to be found in our own moral reasoning, is to teach a child a false religion. And Christians must recognize this abomination.

I believe that the Bible is FULL of instruction about how we are to educate our children. It is clear, from God’s Word, that our primary responsibility is to bring our children up in the admonition of the Lord, instructing them according to what is written in His Word. This is not just something to be done “around the edges” of their primary instruction. It is to be a daily, continual teaching. If we don’t do it, it is our responsibility to find someone who will. (This post, then, is not necessarily advocating homeschooling.)

The one who teaches a child (the “system” or “curriculum”, not necessarily the individual) forms that child’s worldview–his values, his belief system and his philosophy of life. Regardless of a parent’s specific efforts to counteract, at home, the godless instruction he has received for eight hours a day, and even, if in spite of that, a child’s faith is kept in tact, it does not remove his express obligation to provide his children with a Christian education.

I am not against teachers. I am amazed at the commitment, love and genuine concern for children that most teachers I know have. I was one. I know what they endure. I know how deeply they love their students. I commend them! My opposition to public school has nothing to do with the individuals there. Like many parents, they may not realize what is at the core of the state’s intentions. Or maybe they do, and they are desperate to try to make a difference. It’s a little like eating at a restaurant where the owners are secretly poisoning the food, and the waiter is doing all he can to make the meal as delightful as possible. I wouldn’t blame the waiter for my slow death.

Why do I keep talking about it? Why do I “interfere” in other people’s business? Why can’t I respect another’s choice of public schooling, just like I desire the respect to homeschool?

I “get” these questions. Here are my reasons:

1.  I think the Bible encourages us to admonish one another. We are a BODY. We are members connected to each other. What we do affects us all. My choice–your choice to educate our children is HUGE and it is not an isolated choice. If my hand is injured, the rest of my body suffers from it. I believe the church universal is crippled, largely, because of our choice to let the state have such a powerful influence on our children.

2.  I have the gift of prophecy. I know that sounds kooky, but it’s real 😉 It doesn’t mean I predict the future. It’s simply one of the spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12)

In a nutshell, this is what I live every day:

“…the prophet is interested in the origin and the destination– not the trip. He sees the problem and he knows the solution and he wants to help others get from where they are to where God wants them to be.” Charles Stanley

“The prophet has the ability to recognize sinful behavior and a driving compulsion to confront individuals, groups and/or cultures.” Daniel Borchers
Yes, I lose sleep. I am not boasting of a “gift of prophecy”. While I know I must be grateful for what God has created in me, I quite loathe the “driving compulsion” that usually makes people mad at me and gives me ulcers. Please know…I don’t choose to be so annoying. It is a compelling force that robs me of rest and unless you have it, you probably don’t know what a burden it is.

So my heartfelt message is: I cannot help my relentless efforts to bring the message to the body of Christ that I believe is life-giving–“here I stand, I can do no other”. But know as I keep proclaiming it, that there is no spirit of condemnation (it is only God who has this power). Know that I love you. In fact, that is the ONLY reason I feel compelled to wage this war with my pen.

“Thinking that education is something different from discipling our children is a sure sign that we have been ‘educated’ by the state. Education is discipleship.” — R.C. Sproul Jr., When You Rise Up: A Covenantal Approach to Homeschooling

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206 Responses to “To My Christian Friends & Family Who Have Chosen Public School: Things I Need You to Know”

  1. michelle says:

    I can’t figure out an emoticon or the right words for ‘jumping up and down shouting AMEN!!I guess, JUADSA. lol

    Kelly, i do know exactly what you are talking about, the burden. My gift too. It is a tough one. You my dear, flow in your gift beautifully and with mercy.

    Don’t stop rattling the cages. You speak the truth so well and so susinctly.

    Mind if I link back to this?

    Love you so much!

    Michelle

  2. Nicole says:

    I love this. I was a ‘newbie’ homeschooler last year. Financially right now, while my hubby starts a business, we are strapped. I have had MANY thoughts of going back to work. We could so use the income. With that comes the thoughts that my girls, who would all be in school this year, could just go back to public school. I mean, I went and turned out ok (even though I was a Christian for 22 years before I really ‘got it’ and fully gave my life to Christ). As much as we enjoyed homeschooling, I believe that I could be easily swayed, given the chance. It’s easy to let these thoughts creep in.

    However, my hubby FULLY backs me in this journey that is homeschooling. I originally started because I was afraid of losing my 10yo to ‘the world’. I know in my heart they need to be at home. I need to teach them the stuff they need to know. It’s posts like this that cement and reaffirm my thoughts and feelings about the necessity of homeschooling. Thank God for instilling this desire in you, and thank you for being willing to endure hurt by those you love to bring us the message. ((cyber hugs)) 🙂

  3. janet says:

    I have a 12 year old son in public school…he has done so well academically. However, over the past 2 years I’ve seen him losing his enthusiasm for going to school due to some problems with other childrens’ behavior and just the whole school atmosphere in general. He has always been an outgoing, bright boy, full of curiosity and learns easily…but I’ve noticed a steady decline in his attitude toward school. He has even asked to be homeschooled. If I could get over my fears…I would do it. Your prayers would be much appreciated.

    • Kacie says:

      What do you fear? The teen years are such an important time of development and I’m impressed your son has the perception that he needs something else. Surround yourself with a support system and go for it! You can do it!

    • Barbie Emaus says:

      Do it! Do it! You will never regret it if you give it a try. But you will always regret what might have been if you don’t. I give you a personal 100 % money back guarantee on that one. As someone who was a teen that had feelings very much like your own child’s feelings toward school, and who’s parents did take the leap of faith and chose to homeschool me, I can say that (aside from life) homeschooling was the best and greatest gift they EVER gave me. It prepared me more for life as a successful adult then high school ever could have. I now homeschool my 5 children and would never have it any other way. I will be in prayer for you and your dear son.

    • Rebecca says:

      Janet, As a public school teacher and a homeschooling mom, I say try it. Do not let fear ruin this opportunity. It may not be easy but it will be so worth it. I had a discussion with some of my students one day about what “goes on” at our high school with other students, etc. The general consensus was “If my parents had knew half of what goes on in school, they would pull me out so fast…” If your son has expressed a desire to be homeschooled, I would seriously and prayerfully consider it. I will be praying for you. I know how difficult it can be.

    • tori says:

      just do it. fear is best fought actively, rather than trying to get over what you don’t know. I know this from experience because I was afraid to homeschool even though I knew I would from before my 1st could go to school. Just doing it has been the best light against that darkness! 🙂 Best wishes!!!

    • Sarah says:

      Janet,
      I am going into my second year of homeschooling and I can say the first year is an adjustment but it is so worth it. BTW here is a really cool thing I heard not to long ago.
      F-false
      E-evidence
      A-appearing
      R-real
      Blessings,
      Sarah

    • Amber says:

      “For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.” (Hebrews 12:11 ESV)
      I have to remind myself of this verse often!! Sometimes things are hard, scary, painful, etc., but it is so worth it in the end.

  4. Mrs L says:

    Yes Michelle!
    JUADSA here too! (Love it!)

  5. Psmama says:

    Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? To his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. Romans 14:4

    • Word Warrior says:

      PSMama,

      Indeed that verse is true. It is also written about “eating meat served to idols vs. not eating meat served to idols”, where Paul was making a case about not debating about “trivial” issues.

      Paul, the very one who wrote these words, was the apostle of “rebuke” and admonition, speaking strongly to those he loved when he perceived error. He also encouraged us, as fellow believers, to do the same. It is our duty.

      “My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns [the one who sins] from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.” James 5:19,20

      (That it is “sin” is debatable…but as I pointed out in the post, God has always sent fearfully strong messages to His people, warning them of “following false gods”, which is essentially what we do when we embrace a religion that rejects Him.)

      “…rebuke a wise man and he will love you.” Proverbs 9:8

    • tori says:

      she was not judging you! She was crying out truth and hoping you would hear. She was trying to show you what is there in hopes that you will turn away from you. She was not judging ANYONE who chooses public school, just trying to point out the major problem therein.

  6. Jenny says:

    Oh! I am SO glad you’re blogging again! I always feel challenged by what you write and appreciate your boldness to say things you know won’t be popular with everyone.

  7. I am cheering here in Ohio!!! You nailed it!! This is exactly what my heart cries out every single day.

  8. Julia Reffner says:

    I agree with you in that homeschooling is a conviction of my heart and its what I have chosen to do. However, I think the best way for people to be “won” over and honestly I’m not sure I feel right about using that word for homeschooling. I believe it is a deeply held heart conviction and unless someone feels that conviction I think it would only be legalism. So just praying for people’s eyes to be open, showing humility (even though we do truly believe we are doing the right thing, understanding our friends are well-meaning and do love their children). I think its important to remember that. And just let our children shine!

    • Word Warrior says:

      Julia,

      Thank you. I just wanted to clarify…the “clarion call” is not to homeschooling, necessarily. It is simply to a *Christian* education, though I believe homeschooling affords far more benefits than anything else.

  9. Karen says:

    Well I guess that is my gift also, I had a friend tell me that a few months ago and I did not understand…now I do! As far as public school, I always wanted to homeschool, but my husband is totally against it. We were lucky in the fact that we are an off the beaten path area and our girls were taught from a Christian view in a lot of the classes. Teachers wittnessed, bible verses read aloud, Christian music in the hallways , so I felt somewhat okay with it, however middle and high school are a whole different story..and the Christian schools in the area are full of mostly non Christian kids who have gotten into so much trouble there parents have stuck them there to see if someone can fix the problem. Yes my girls have “witnessed” to other children , but so far those children have a much bigger influence on mine than mine did on them. I wish I could start over….Karen

    • Amber says:

      I’m sorry Karen, that is rough. I remember being one of those girls in public school trying so hard to “witness” (whatever I thought that was at that point anyway) and ultimately being swayed the other way. I never desired to be of the world, but I just wasn’t rooted strongly enough to stand and I often felt very alone. Pray and hang in there.

  10. jen in AL says:

    LOVE YOU SO!!! Thank you for saying what is needed and living life in dependance and service to our Great God!!! Praying for protection and peace as you handle the effects of what must be said. love and blessings, jen

    • 6 arrows says:

      My sentiments exactly. Kelly, you are amazing! Your responses to the commenters here are so filled with wisdom and grace, as you stand firm in your convictions. Love and prayers for you, sister.

  11. Sarah says:

    AMEN!!!! When I first came across your blog, I was shocked because I felt like I was reading something I would have written. Now I know – it is because you are a prophet too! Being a prophet is not well receipted, but a gift from the Lord, none the less.

  12. Thanks for your loving post 🙂

  13. Lisa says:

    You have confirmed what’s in my heart. Thank you!

  14. tammy says:

    Dear Kelly,

    I am thankful for you gift. As a mercy person i have come to understand more and more, yes these are gifts from God, but they also carry downsides from our natures that makes it so hard sometimes. I praise God that you are a voice desiring and sharing truth. Lord Bless you for it. So far as life and education i am also understanding more that it should all be about Him. Yes we live in the world ,but our focus as Christ followers should be on Him and His word. If my children know nothing else i would pray they have the Word of God tucked in their hearts and minds to guide them thru all of life. They will not get this in public schools. It is our job before God to teach them diligently. It ain’t easy. What in life is? We must set our minds on eternal things. Praise God for His grace and mercy that saves and preserves us for His Glory and to make these things possible. with much love~

  15. MelissaJoy says:

    I was homeschooled exclusively until I met my husband and began college. I think it is such wonderful instruction for your children to see and know how you feel and think about all of these issues from a Biblical worldview.

    My parents were by no means perfect, and we didn’t even have money for a curriculum or books. In fact, if you were to judge my homeschooling by my academics, my parents were complete failures. But they weren’t. I learned about life while I was homeschooled, and I learned how to learn (look up autodidactic in the dictionary).

    By college, I had never written a formal paper in my life nor taken a timed test, but I was recommended for the honor society my very first semester. I excelled academically because I knew how to learn, and I was driven. I received my Associates and am now a stay at home wife and mother.

    While growing up, I didn’t my parents to point out to me every time a friend struggled with sin—I could see it plainly, just as plain it was as their bondage to it and the parents’ loss as to what to do simply because of the chasm that separated their lives so many hours each day.

    The school environment itself is too much, in my opinion, for any child to have to be in day in and day out. I’ve watched children on the playgrounds and heard the attitudes without any rebuke–there are just too many children for an adult to correct every behavior! I’ve seen the seed of sin get planted, take root and lay in secret seclusion simply in the form of a sinful thought that goes unchecked.

    It’s not a “judgment upon others” that I cast in saying that I will do everything in my power (including pray) to keep my children out of an environment where I have abandoned them–and that is what *my* conviction is, that I would be abandoning them (leaving them to their own). There is a time where we must be a part of this world in order to get by in it and share the Light of Christ within it, but sending a child to school for 8+ hours per day is *not* the way to do it, in fact you are robbing the child of that many hours each day that he could be instilled with the wisdom and teaching of God’s Word. My daughter is 3.5 and has a heart for the nations, but she’s not touching the hearts of other children, she just brought her recently widowed grandmother to Christ. Children in the Word are a wonder, a marvel. Not ready to be sent out to the wolves on their own, but capable of doing SO MUCH for the kingdom of God!

    Ok, I anticipate much persecution for this one.

    Good job, Kelly… I understand your gifts–we are sisters in the faith.

    Love,
    Melissa

  16. Brenda says:

    Love, Love, Love your post.
    It is exactly what I think and feel and believe, also. Our three older kids went to ps up until Middle School, then I pulled them out to homeschool. It did not go as well as I’d hoped. They ended up back in ps for High School (although they weren’t behind! That says something!) My husband takes great delight in publicizing my failures (he says he wasn’t for homeschooling from the beginning, which is false, but we never got his support after we started. We are divorcing, btw – not because of this, specifically, but for many OTHER falsehoods he’s been living.)
    Now I’ll have two in High School, and two little ones who are 4yo and 2yo. I want so badly to keep them home, and homeschool. But now I don’t think there’s even a chance for that to happen.
    And private Christian school? Ha. Money-wise, forget it.
    So, while I absolutely love your post, it just reinforces the fact that my children ARE in the thick of the fray, and it’s best if I can just teach them AT HOME to put on their spiritual warfare for the battle.
    God bless you!

  17. Brenda says:

    MelissaJoy — bless you, too!!
    I really wish I had people around me like you, and Kelly, and Michelle, and so many others on here…bless you all!!

    • MelissaJoy says:

      Thank you Brenda, I’m honored. God bless you! I need a community of like-minded people always, so let’s stick together and spur each other on sisters!

      • MelissaJoy says:

        It probably seems weird, and I’m sure nobody will see this as it’s so far up the “comment chain”, but what I said didn’t sit well all this time and I was trying to figure out why… because I said “I’m honored” which is actually entirely opposite of what I really am–humbled. GOD is honored.
        Anyway, I couldn’t let that one go.
        🙂

  18. Cassandra Henderson says:

    Kelly,

    Your post is spot on and I have never viewed any of your posts as negative. Christians need to gently correct each other, and challenge each other to stay on the straight and narrow path. I so desire to either home school or place our children in a private, Christian school. I am a stay at home mom, who was formerly a public school educator and school administrator. I am fully credentialed, and could easily home school. However, my husband is against homeschooling (this resistance actually has nothing to do with my teaching skills, but I think he has a hard time seeing this as a viable option simply because he is not familiar with it) ! Right now, we are not able to afford the $500 per month that it would cost to send our oldest (currently 1st grade) to Christian school–we could only do this right now if I went back to work. We currently have two children and we did manage to find a Christian preschool program for our youngest for 3 half days per week. That program is affordable because I get a HUGE discount for volunteering (I wish I could find something like this for elementary school). I have looked into financial assistance for Christian elementary schools and I have found nothing. I am currently praying for God to provide the funds, provide assistance through the Christian school, or change my husband’s heart about homeschooling. I know God changes hearts because His word notes it, and because he recently changed my husband’s heart on the issue of having more children. My husband is now ready to try for another baby. So…in the meantime I wait on God to make a Christian education possible. We do disciple our children at home (and I pray fiercely that God protects them spiritually as well as physically), but I feel like I should be doing more in the meantime. I just don’t know what that is.

  19. Amanda says:

    Thoughts from a public school parent:
    While I appreciate you heartfelt desire to share your extreme burden for homeshooling, I think you are limiting God’s power. There are many people out there who do not have the gift of homeschooling nor can they afford the cost of a private Christian education. To say that homeschooling is the best option is not necessarily true and would lead to more frustration and disunity in the home to try to force them into the mold of homeschooling. After much prayer, searching the Word of God, and agonizing over our decision, my husband and I decided that the best place for our boys was in the public school. We are constantly evaluating our kids attitudes and behaviors, where they are in school, and looking ahead to the future for where they are going. Just as we do not entirely leave the teaching of Biblical truths up to the Sunday School teachers, we do not leave the education of our children in other areas entirely up to the school either. Nor am I a less adequate or caring parent because we do not homeshool our children.
    Your post makes the assumption that we as public school parents are not engaged in the learning and schooling of our children. We are very much involved in our children’s schooling and it has provided us with many unique opportunities to discuss issues that they will face though out life such as how to measure God’s Word and standards against the things that they are taught, how to deal with people who’s world view is different then our own and to know that people who believe in evolution, etc are not stupid people (which is sadly the way they are often portrayed in church) but just don’t believe in God, so when they come up against these things after they leave home they have the experience to stand firm in what they believe.
    So back to the limiting God. To say that the only place for godly children/families is homeschool is to limit God’s ability to work in the world through our children and family. God is capable of being a powerful force in our children and through our children at the public school. Our boys have touched so many lives of those around them by living out daily the love of God in the school.
    So in short, homeshooling is not for everyone. Neither is public school, private school, or alternative schools. I have many many friends who homeschool and it works beautifully for their family and it is where they are called to be. Bus as we get ready to start this new school year we have confidence and peace that our boys are where they need to be. That God has placed them in this school “for such a time as this”.

    • Julieanne says:

      “There are many people out there who do not have the gift of homeschooling.”

      I must kindly respond to let you know that there isn’t a “gift” of homeschooling, just like there isn’t a “gift” of parenting.

      When we, as parents, realize the absolute necessity of raising our children in a godly environment, whether this is homeschooling or a Christian private school, we are left with these two choices for our children’s education. If we can’t afford a Christian school (and those must be carefully examined to determine how Christian they really are, and who the peers of our children would be), then the only option is to homeschool our children.

      The ability to homeschool with success is not because we, as parents, are gifted with some rare, unusual spiritual gift to do this to the Lord. Instead, the gift is when the person realizes that this is the best option (if they can’t afford Christian school) for their children, and the parent is obedient to the Lord in this.

      When we are obedient in very hard things, the Lord will provide us with patience, love, kindness, an understanding into how our children learn, an understanding into who our children really are, and provide us with what we need when we need it. It’s not something we’re born with; it comes after following the Lord in obedience.

      The #1 complaint I hear from people is that they don’t have the patience to teach their own children at home. Did they teach their children how to tie their shoes? How to brush their teeth? How to make their beds? If they didn’t have enough patience to do even those things, then this is a serious problem that the parent needs to seek the Lord’s help for wisdom and patience. Yes – pray for patience! 🙂

      The Lord will provide homeschooling parents with what they need to do their work at home. It is a godly ministry to our children!

      • Amanda says:

        “When we are obedient in very hard things”
        To try to mold ourself into something that is not our calling from God, despite what the world around us say, Christian or secular, is not being obedient to God. To be obedient to God in sending our boys to public school was probably one of the hardest things to do. Because it is right for one family does not make it right for every family.

        • Monica says:

          And when your child comes to you and says they don’t believe in God anymore, what will you do? We home school but put our daughter in the school music classes with the “christian” teachers. She was very well respected and had a strong faith to the point that even the non-christian boys protected her. She has endured many trials through her short life. Last month, she informed us that she no longer believes. I believe that God is at work in her life. Our relationship is good

          It may not be just the public school but the ungodly culture around us. When you put your children where they are not ready to be, are you ready for the outcome?

          • Amanda says:

            I went to public school all growing up and struggled less with all the ideas that I as hit with in college that did not line up with what God’s word said then people who were more sheltered. I know more people who came from homeschooling families and attended Christian college that have turned away from God then those who came from a strong Godly family and attended secular school. Homeschool or secular school do not decide if a child will believe. I can do my best to train them up and have to trust that God has his hand on their lives. I cannot decide for them but I can teach and pray for them that they will allow God into their life. I pray that your daughter will come back into God’s will quickly.

          • Michelle says:

            I get what you are trying to say. I also believe you have strong conviction to say what you are calling “rebuke”, but with all due respect, this may not be your calling/job. This topic calls for a bit more encouragement, rather than rebuke. It is a life changing, family altering, time consuming, financial sacrifice that families have to make along with God’s leading. If a family does not believe they are able to make the sacrifices for one reason or another, and they truly prayed with the fervor you claim you put into this passionate “rebuke”, then who are you/we to fault them, or call them “scardy cats”, or even worse, “disobedient”??

            As a homeschooling family/mom, you need to posses a certain level of preparedness and content mastery, or your children will suffer academically. Sorry, it is true. It is fact, actually. I have seen it a thousand times as a public school teacher.

            I understand where you are coming from. I truly feel your heart here, but you may need to back off a bit to see where OTHER people’s hearts lie. With your rebuke, add some love and compassion. If a decision was made in a family with God to send their children to public school, this does not mean that their children will not love Jesus….not at all.

            In Love,
            Michielle

            • tori says:

              It seems to me that you think you understand what she has written, but you don’t fully understand it. First, because she was not advocating homeschooling. She was advocating for CHRISTIAN schooling. She specified that at least once. Also, though not explicitly written, I believe the audience intended are not those who have fervently prayed and desired God’s Will, but those who have chosen public schooling simply because it is the norm. All too many parents (even MANY CHristian parents) simply do not question the predominant way of doing things…. I hope Michelle will correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe she is not judging at all or condemning God-led decisions of individuals. Neither is she condemning those who follow the current main stream and simply put their children in Public School, but she is rebuking them for not seeking God’s Will first. JMO, of course. I hope she’ll correct as necessary.

    • Word Warrior says:

      Amanda,

      Thank you very much for sharing your perspective. I did want to clarify something you said that is incorrect: “To say that the only place for godly children/families is homeschool”…

      This is not what I said. While I do prefer homeschooling, I believe the Bible instructs parents to give their children a solidly Christian education, which doesn’t necessarily mean homeschooling. So, just to clear that up.

      I agree that God’s power is limitless and He can work through any circumstance, even our wrong decisions or difficult circumstances. However, I think we need to walk with incredible trepidation when we consider an anti-Christian education in light of the instruction Scripture clearly gives us concerning how to educate/train/disciple our children, especially as we have a choice.

      It really goes back to our willingness to believe that there is no such thing as a neutral education, which means all education has, at its core, a “god”, a religion, a worldview. Nothing can be taught in a vacuum, and I really believe this is the greatest misunderstanding among parents.

      If we were to replace this discussion with a “Wiccan” (the cult/practice of witchcraft) school instead of a public school, I think we would all be in so much more agreement. Would we consider sending our children there? Children there need to be evangelized as much as anyone else. Why or why not?

      But truly, is the educating of our children by a worldview that embraces witchcraft worse than educating our children by a worldview that embraces the religion of humanism? Why or why not? “No other gods before Me” includes “man as god” (humanism) and this is idolatry.

      (By the way, Humanism was the first temptation, bringing the fall of man–“You shall be as gods.”)

      The founders and influencers of modern education openly proclaim that humanism is to be propagated, at every level, in the classroom (for the atheist, this is an obvious religion). Consider this chilling quote by John Dunphy, from the Humanist Manifesto:

      “The battle for humankind’s future must be waged and won in the public school classroom by teachers who correctly perceive their role as the proselytizers of a new faith: A religion of humanity — utilizing a classroom instead of a pulpit to carry humanist values into wherever they teach. The classroom must and will become an arena of conflict between the old and the new — the rotting corpse of Christianity, together with its adjacent evils and misery, and the new faith of humanism.”

      David Winter said,

      “The idolatry of Western man is humanism…No more subtle enemy has ever faced the Christian church than this one which dethrones her God and replaces Him with His creature.” The humanists, especially in Great Britain, are becoming militant. They are dedicated to attacking Christianity.”

      Denying that the public school system is, at its core, on a mission to indoctrinate children with the religion of humanism, does not make it any less true. What’s left then, is what we do with that knowledge.

      “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; …Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man…Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator..” Romans 1:18-25

      And I would ditto what Julieanne said…homeschooling is certainly not a “gift”; it’s a choice.

      Not “us against them”, dear sister, but all of us, together, as the body of Christ…this is my prayer and mission and know that all of this is written from a heart of love and sincerity.

    • Hannah says:

      Thank you Amanda for this gracious response. I admire homeschoolers. But I also know many godly people who have children in public schools. I also admire them. They have an unique opportunity for the kids and the parents to be the salt and light…It really is like a missionary calling; living among hostile people group who in its core is against the Gospel. Still we are called to reach out to these people. I pray for Christian families whose kids are in public schools: you are such a blessing in that generation. There is sacrifice and difficulties, but if God has called you to do it, He must have a plan far greater than we can see at this moment. God has His unique plan for each family; He knows what they are able to do and where. Some are called to be home, some are called to go out.

      • Word Warrior says:

        Hannah,

        You bring up the common, favorite lines…”They have an unique opportunity for the kids and the parents to be the salt and light…It really is like a missionary calling; living among hostile people group who in its core is against the Gospel” but still without any biblical rebuttal to the very clear and pressing question: what is the responsibility of Christian parents, per God’s Word, concerning who teaches their children and what they are to be taught? I feel sometimes that public school is such the “sacred cow” that parents read something or hear something like this post, and stick their fingers in their ears, humming “la-la-la” very loudly.

        If the Bible isn’t our standard, and if we can’t defend a thing as important as educating our children from it, we have nothing to stand on.

        Your comment which I quoted…no where, remotely in Scripture, are we commanded to send our children to be “salt and light” among pagans. Jesus even demonstrated this as He walked with his grown disciples until they were fully mature and ready to be on their own. It’s insane, at best, to think that God commands us to POUR His commands daily into our children, but simultaneously tells us to send them off all day to be immersed in a heathen culture. He can’t do both. We have to discern from the Scriptures what is there.

        But that’s not even the real issue here…we’re not talking about “sending them out to the mission field”. We’re talking about sending them under the authority, mentoring, counseling and instruction of “the ungodly” (Psalm 1). Vastly different, even if they were ready to be missionaries. “For the student, when he is fully grown, will be like his teacher.” (i.e. in the this case, the teacher is Humanism, a false religion).

        • Hannah says:

          Maybe I use the missionary calling example because as a family we are missionaries among hostile people group 🙂 We have to teach our very young children give answers to their neighborhood friends because they ask questions about our faith. Children can be a wonderful witness in the world. I understand the Old Testament advice to teach our children, but more pressing to us as a family is the New Testament authorized gift of living in this world, but not letting it change us into wordly people (Romans 12:2). We do teach our children Biblical principles and repentant lifestyle daily, but it is always great to have real life examples form the play times or school times with this native people group. I have also an opportunity to speak to the native children when I see wrong behavior, beliefs and attitudes. I am not afraid of living among people who do not share our faith and I do not believe God is limited to work in our kids lives because we have followed His calling to live in this unreached place.
          On the other hand, how do you answer the command of Jesus at the end of Matthew: “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” When I read it, I feel there are many Christians who are not obedient to this call. You feel there are families who are not obedient to the call of homeschooling/putting their kids in Christian schools.
          Can you see them as a commandment to the whole body even though only few actually go? Other support financially, by praying or by practical help. In the same way, God can call parents to send their kids to public schools. As I commented later in this chain, there a lot of countries with just public school option.
          Cheers!

          • Word Warrior says:

            You write as if you are currently on the foreign mission field, but your IP address shows you to be in Oregon. Not that America isn’t a “country hostile to God”, just wanted to clarify so I can have a straightforward conversation.

            It is beyond my strongest faculties that Christians can compare “being missionaries to a lost world” to parents sending their children to be taught by that lost world. What a contrast! We are to witness to a lost world, to take light into darkness, to make the glory of God known among the nations, but NEVER are we instructed to give our children into the care, counsel and instruction of those who are lost! Not sending my children to a public school is hardly “living in a cocoon” and to say such is quite an uninformed insult. Being missionaries along side my children (which the Christian is everywhere he goes) is a far cry from sending my growing-disciples under the pagan-teaching of our culture.

            You ask:
            “…how do you answer the command of Jesus at the end of Matthew: “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations…”

            It is precisely part of why I’m so passionate about this subject! First, a more accurate grammatical reading of the verse is this: “In your going (or “as you go”), make disciples of your people group”. http://www.faithandreasonforum.com/index.asp?PageID=16&ArticleID=536

            Then, the command is obviously given to us for our children and closest “people group” FIRST. How could it be a command to disciple other people but forget the ones put first in our home to disciple? (And so often, we sacrifice our children on the altar of “missions”). To try to paint a picture of what I see in this whole discussion, as it relates to The Great Commission, imagine that you head off to the mission field (which is only a fraction of what it means, but that’s how most of us think of it) and you begin to “disciple the people”. Only you don’t teach them anything about God. You teach them about the world, you teach them how to act, what they should think, how they are to distinguish right from wrong, but you NEVER mention the gospel or the lordship of Christ. How effective is your discipleship? Yet, we put our children under that kind of teaching in place of our duty to disciple them and claim they are “already missionaries” when they are babies in the faith.

            And just to reiterate in response to something you said: “When I read it, I feel there are many Christians who are not obedient to this call.” “Going” is not necessary to be missionaries. We are called to make disciples everywhere at all times, including our children.

            • Hannah says:

              We use a protected internet system so it shows an address in US.
              🙂

            • Amanda W. says:

              Furthermore, Jesus himself did not begin his earthly ministry until he was roughly 30 years of age – far from the 4, 5 and 6 year olds people are advocating to be sent into the system to be “salt and light.” It’s something Christian parents like to tell themselves because it eases the conviction.

              • Jennifer says:

                4, 5 and 6 year olds are not taught much beyond the most basic of universal facts, like numbers and letters, for pete’s sake. My 5 year old niece is in a sort of daycare preschool and we don’t have to worry about paganism being taught to her. Only recently have I seen signs of bad seeds being pushed to even small children’s teaching; had you approached me ten years ago on this, I’d be defending public school like the type I know personally with vehemence. But those seem to be a dying breed.

      • Amanda says:

        Thank you for the encouragement Hannah :o)

  20. Pamela says:

    Amen, Amen, Amen.
    I totally agree. I hear well there are a lot of “Christian teachers at our school.” That one is the biggest excuse I hear down here in Mississippi and Alabama.
    I also hear, I know a lot of people from our church that work for the public school system.

    Homeschooling takes a lot of sacrifice. You might not be able to afford that big house, toys your kids don’t need, and a lot of other things on your wish list. What you receive is much more than you sacrifice. You get to see your kids grow and blossom. You get to see that twinkle in their eye when they learn something new. Homeschoolers are programed to look, listen, and observe so they can always be learning. I love when my kids are playing and they see something, they ask questions, they observe, they are learning.

    • Hilary says:

      Ha. I graduated high school in 2004 from Trussville, AL, a great school district with lots of “Christians.” One of those towns with a church on every corner and everyone went to church on Sunday. If I had to guess from my class of 250, there are *maybe* 5-10 that are still strong Christians. The rest are either completely secular, New Age, or “liberal Christian.” I remember a few of my teachers giving subtle references to Christianity at times, but definitely nothing too meaningful or lifechanging. There was a lot of sex going on, nasty talk, bullying…I hated it. I would rather cut off my arm than put my child in a public school. Ive lost friends over this issue because they simply refuse to listen. It breaks my heart because so many people DO know what they are doing, they are just willing to sacrifice their child for the golden cow of “missions” in public school which, let’s all be honest, isn’t working. If it was, 80+% of kids wouldnt be leaving the faith after high school. I think I read that 65% of my generation approe of gay marriage. I was never brought to a Pride assembly at school, that would have been unheard of 20 years ago. Now children are being indoctrinated from Kindergarten that homosexuality, transgenderism, transexualism, etc is perfect ok and normal. Just the other day in Oakland, CA a school had a Pride assembly 30 mins long. You can search for it online to watch the whole video. People may say, well, that’s in Liberal California, that would never happen here! But I guarantee within the next 5 years it will be required for ALL public schools. Wake up, church! Get your children out!

  21. Kris says:

    Hitler said, “He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future”

    The government has an agenda and its aimed at the youth. BUT I believe intentional Christian parents, such as Amanda, (along with teachers and district staff) can be called by the Lord to the public school mission feild, beacuse that is exactly what it is. These very intentional parents who teach the word at home and are heavily influencing the lives of their kids and involved in their education and social activities should be just as commended as homeschoolers. These parents are rare among public school parents, but that just makes them shine all the more bright for Jesus and Lord willing will influence the culture.

  22. Amanda says:

    After my earlier comment, “Thoughts from a public school parent” I spent some time praying. I really felt the Lord lead me to make those comments and I still do. But there was such a disturbance in my soul that I had to go to the Lord and seek out answers to this. I came to the realization that this post hurt and not in a admonishment, build one another up sort of way, but in a way that felt judgmental and unless I was doing it this way I couldn’t possibly in God’s will. As I mentioned earlier, when we sent our boys to pubic school we prayed for months, looked at all sorts of schools, homeschooling included, sought God’s word, asked counsel of Godly mentors and came to the peace of God that would have us send our children to public school.
    There have also been several comments about Christian teachers in public schools and the feeling that they don’t really make a difference. I can tell you that they do. Before my children were born I was a teacher in a public school and have seen the difference they can make in the lives of children, so much more so then the subjects that are being taught. It makes all the difference in the life of a child who’s family is being torn apart by divorce, or drugs, or absent parents, or just ungodly parents. It makes all the difference in the life of a child who comes from a Christian home when they can see people in the community live out a godly life beyond home and church. It can make a different in the life of families who’s child you taught 5, 10 years ago run into you at the grocery store and say “because of the love you had shown my child in school we were compelled to seek out what you have and have been serving the Lord for the last x years.” Our children have also made such a difference in their schools. Parent teacher conferences are filled with comments on how they are leaders in the class, they are a role model for their peers, and how the behavior of students around them are better because they are following the example of our child. That is truly the highest praise my children can receive, that they are living out the godly example and making a difference to their peers.
    This is to be a place of encouragement so please build people up even when the way that you feel lead to do things is not the way everyone does them. Public school parents need just as much encouragement and support as homeschool parents. Sadly at this time every year just before school starts I am overwhelmed by the discouragement and judgement that I get from those parents who homeschool. I have hold on to God’s peace with all my might and trust that I am walking in God’s will for our family.
    Homeschooling is great and I applaud everyone who is doing so because it is God’s calling for their family, but before you look down your noses at friends, family, neighbors for sending their children to public school, remember that the path God has you to walk is not the same path for another family and every family has to walk in God’s calling. We are not less Christian, or out of the will of God, or less informed to send our children to public school, we are simply walking the path that God has laid out for us.

    • Word Warrior says:

      Dearest Amanda,

      The judgement you feel doesn’t come from me. “…but before you look down your noses at friends, family, neighbors for sending their children to public school…”

      This post is precisely about dispelling the idea of my “looking down noses”. I wish you could see in my heart. To know the hurt, not judgement, that is there.

      I will not deny that there may some rare, unusual circumstances where God may lead a family to do something that seems contradictory to what is written in His Word, just like there are some “normatives vs. narratives” in the Bible. But I believe, and will stand by it until I’m proven wrong from Scripture, that the principles of educating our children found in God’s Word are the same for every believer. The path that “God lays out for us” IS the written Word…the light and the lamp to our path.

      And I am thankful God has used your children to be a light around them.

      • I’m frankly confused by this…are you saying that you think there are only rare exceptions where Christians should not homeschool their children? And that Scripture says that if parents are not the sole educators of their child that they are “contrary to Scripture”?

        As a graduate of homeschooling and a homeschooler (for now), that really, REALLY bothers me if that is what you’re saying. Because nowhere in Scripture does it say HOW we are to train our kids and that we MUST educate them at home in order for them to want to follow God. Homeschooling your children does not guarantee godly children. If God is calling someone to homeschool and they choose to be disobedient to that call, then THAT is sin. If God calls someone to put their kids in public school, then to choose to ignore the Holy Spirit’s voice there would also be sin. This mindset that homeschooling is “God’s Way” of educating children really needs to be weeded out of the homeschooling community.

        Amanda…I completely and totally agree with everything you have said and I am really sorry that so many homeschoolers are judgmental. And anyone who denies that there are a lot of judgmental homeschoolers is just plain wrong.

        • Word Warrior says:

          Elizabeth,

          It might help if you actually read the post I wrote, because your question is explicitly answered there. No confusion 😉

          • I did read the post, but thanks for the suggestion.

          • Also, in case it was confusing to you, I was referring to your comments, not to your post. My questions remain unanswered.

            • tori says:

              The author, in her original post, explicitly stated that the post was not a direction to homeschool, but to school children in Christian values. She did specify that doing so after 8 hours in the environment of the religion of humanism (only in the evening and one weekends) would not be enough. However, I think she was frustrated by your question because she did answer is specifically in her post. What she said in her comment was in direct response to another’s comment and in no way negates her initial statements within the post.

              • If that really was the intent, then why was public schooling even mentioned at all? Public school has nothing to do with it! I know she keeps saying that she isn’t saying homeschooling is the only godly way to educate children, but her comments to many people question anyone who sends their kids to public school and she intimates that such people need admonishment. Admonishment suggests that someone is doing something sinful. The specific comments that I was asking for clarification on imply that there are only rare circumstances where Christians are unable to homeschool and that people who public school are doing something that “seems contrary to Scripture”. Statements like that conflict with this whole “I’m not judging you” thing.

                • Word Warrior says:

                  I’m really trying to read your comments with understanding, but it almost seems like you’re partially replying to something else other than what I’ve written. (By the way, the misuse of the “thou shalt not judge” becomes exhausting…here is a great exegesis on that passage and what our responsbility as Christians to judge, teach and admonish really means): http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/199704/092_judging.cfm

                  Once again, I didn’t say “there are only rare circumstances when a person can’t HOMESCHOOL…” I said there are only rare circumstances when parents may not be able to provide their children with a Christian education…very rare, and those families may or may not be living out what we would call a “narrative” instead of a normative.

                  Regardless of what you *feel* about what is being said, I’ve asked repeatedly for a rebuttal to my raised concerns from Scripture. None have yet been given. Only insults, finger-wagging or distracting rabbit trails.

            • Word Warrior says:

              Your question: “I’m frankly confused by this…are you saying that you think there are only rare exceptions where Christians should not homeschool their children? And that Scripture says that if parents are not the sole educators of their child that they are “contrary to Scripture”?”

              My answer, in the post: “If we don’t do it, it is our responsibility to find someone who will. (This post, then, is not necessarily advocating homeschooling.)”

              I don’t know how to say that any more clearly. I really don’t think you’re understand the heart of this discussion and/or you’re reacting to something other than what I’ve written here.

        • Word Warrior says:

          Oh and also, EVERYWHERE in Scripture tells us “how” we are to train and educate our kids. “God’s way” of educating children is that we disciple them in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, teaching them, in every subject, that Jesus Christ is supreme. Any education that attempts to teach a child about the world apart from the knowledge of Him who created said world, is no education, at best.

        • Cathy says:

          And, I am in complete agreement with you Elizabeth (my comments, in epistle form, are below).

      • Amber says:

        I think one of the worst ways to handle any matter as a Christian is to say something like “We prayed about it and this is the direction that God led us” and then the direction you are “led” is contrary to scripture. God does NOT lead people on extra biblical paths. God can do anything in any situation, but that doesn’t excuse us from our responsibility as parents to raise them according to the Bible’s standards.

  23. Heather Brown says:

    I love this! I suppose that I may also share that “gift”. I have never thought about it. However, I certainly can see the forest for the trees and I love others enough to say it. Which often, makes them dislike me. *Sigh*

  24. Vanessa I. says:

    While I do agree that parents…Christian parents in particular, need to be careful about outside influences, my biggest concern with this post was your claim to have a gift of prophecy. Yes, in 1 Corinthians 12, the Apostle Paul does mention “gifts”, but if you continue to read this book, into 1 Corinthians 13:8, you see that Paul also tells us “Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.” You say you have the gift of prophecy, yet you give an interpretation of a prophet….

    proph·e·cy [ próffəssee ]
    1. divine prediction: a prediction of a future event that is believed to reveal the will of a deity
    2. prediction: a prediction that something will occur in the future
    3. supposed ability to predict future: the supposed ability to predict the future when inspired by a deity

    proph·et   [prof-it]
    noun
    1. a person who speaks for God or a deity, or by divine inspiration.
    2.(in the Old Testament)
    a. a person chosen to speak for God and to guide the people of Israel: Moses was the greatest of Old Testament prophets.
    b.( often initial capital letter ) one of the Major or Minor Prophets.
    c.one of a band of ecstatic visionaries claiming divine inspiration and, according to popular belief, possessing magical powers.
    d.a person who practices divination.
    3.one of a class of persons in the early church, next in order after the apostles, recognized as inspired to utter special revelations and predictions. 1 Cor. 12:28.
    4.the Prophet, Muhammad, the founder of Islam.
    5.a person regarded as, or claiming to be, an inspired teacher or leader.

    Look at the first definition of prophecy:
    “divine prediction: a prediction of a future event that is believed to reveal the will of a deity”

    In biblical times the gift of prophecy existed because the completed canon of scripture had not yet been given, so the apostles / prophets needed to tell others the will of God. Today, we HAVE the completed canon of scriptures, which clearly tell us everything God wants us to know about the past, present and future, so there is no longer a need for prophecy, and therefore shows that Paul’s statement in 1 Cor. 13:8 is correct. If everyone who walked around claiming to have the gift of prophecy, which by definition is “a prediction of a future event that is believed to reveal the will of a deity”, were correct, we would have to gather up all the Bibles and rewrite them in order for everyone to have God’s will and instructions, which would always be changing! Therefore, I cannot agree with you, according to what the Bible clearly states, that you have the gift of prophecy. And yes, I am a Bible believing, King James, right dividing, Christian! 2 Timothy 2:15!

    • Word Warrior says:

      Perhaps this is more of a semantic issue than anything…I am a cessationist as well regarding the “charasmatic” gifts being done away with. I use the term “prophet” to indicate the spiritual gift of “exhortation” or “teaching” (that is the label it is given among most teaching) that I do believe still exists. R.C. Sproul sums it up:

      Since the church’s foundation has been laid (Eph. 2:19–21), no one today exercises the gift of prophecy as the prophets and apostles of old did. Yet the prophetic responsibility to explain God’s Word to the people remains, and teachers are obligated, like the prophets, to preach true doctrine (Deut. 13:1–5; Titus 2:1). Therefore, teachers who exhort us to live out Jesus’ rules for kingdom life bear good fruit. Sound teachers call us to repent (Matt. 5:3), live as salt and light (vv. 13–16), recognize our inability to keep God’s law under our own power (v. 20), and follow Christ wholeheartedly (6:19–24).

      I have no doubt there is something within some of us that compels, drives and urges us to “proclaim truth” as some of the prophets of old did, but has nothing to do with predicting the future. This is the gift of which I speak.

  25. Cathy says:

    As you know, Kelly, I am in disagreement w/your assessment. I have thought about this issue long and hard, and will qualify my statement by way of my background (you already know most of it, so this is for those reading this long tome):

    I have ten kids. I have homeschooled all of them at some level. My oldest daughter didn’t go to traditional school until she entered college. As an aside, many of your readers have expressed (on other posts) that they don’t advocate women going to college, and many of the Vision Forum folks advocate for “stay-at-home-daughters.” That isn’t the topic, but I would be remiss if I didn’t mention it. And, on that topic, that is their choice, and their world view, and I accept and respect that. After my oldest, the next four attended and graduated from a public school when they began high school after homeschooling the preceding years. The next three, all girls spaced close together, homeschooled, then attended a middle school together. Finally, my last two were homeschooled, and then were integrated into a Christian school when they were in the 6th and 3rd grade respectively. My son graduated from a Christian high school, and my daughter is a junior in high school this fall. She will attend the same Christian high school, but this year, she will only attend part time, and attend the local community college to take a couple of classes. Half of my kids graduated from a Christian college, and half from a secular college. As you also know, my husband is an AP and Honors Chem public school teacher, and my daughter teaches ASL to hearing students @ a public school. I think it’s key that you know each of your children, and try to implement a system that works for their individuality.

    You and I have argued the points ad nauseam, but I am somewhat piqued @ your latest round of public school quotes (which, frankly, were not all necessarily referring to public schools), and arguments. I don’t expect to, nor do I want to, change your mind. That is not the intention of my comment. It is, though, to give another side, as Amanda did. I will write this in bullet points, and comment on them. Feel free to respond–or not.

    * If I understand, your gift of “prophecy” means that you have discernment. If I am wrong on that point, then please correct me; I, too, believe that I have that gift. In other words, much of the time, I can cut to the chase, see/hear wrong doctrine, spot contradictory statements, and I can quickly distinguish between truth and error. However, and this is huge–there is a monstrous downside to it. And, I am implying nothing about you; I am, though, stating this about ME. I tend to be judgmental, overly analytical, and critical. The Lord is good, though, and He is chipping away at those horrid sins. I am prideful at times, and have to ask God to help me rein it in, and not impugn motives or think that I know a person’s heart. Many decades ago, I sinned against the Lord in a way that I never thought that I would (I didn’t break any of man’s laws, but I broke God’s law, and it wasn’t the garden variety sins like gossip, or lying, etc.), and, as a result, I became a more merciful person, and praise God, I think a more grace-filled person. And, often having a rebellious child has a way of taking the blinders off and seeing w/kindness and love, and not using a battering ram of truth.

    * Now, if you and I both have the gift of discernment, why do we not see eye-to-eye on the issue of public schooling? And, again, why do many God-following, Jesus-loving disciples not agree w/you—or me? Do they love Jesus less (I know, I know, you’re already answered that)??? Why do guys like Tim Challies, who is rock-solid Biblically, not homeschool, and write blog posts about why they don’t? Are they uninformed, ignorant, or just practicing sinful behavior? Because, Kelly, while you may just stop short of calling it “sin,” you did say on FB that “Parents will have to stand before the Lord, and give an answer,” in response to the issue of public schooling. Stand before the Lord for what? I submit that EVERYONE will have to stand before the Lord, per Scripture, and give an account of their lives. (I left a quote by MacArthur on your wall w/regard to the judgment seat, and he didn’t use it as a threat. In fact, it was downright comforting. Maybe you didn’t mean to use it in such a way, but from where I sit, it sure sounded like it.) How do you know that we’ll stand before God and have to answer for sending our kids to public school more than we have to answer for anything else? What will be scrutinized is our MOTIVE for why we did things, because even seemingly good works can be done w/wrong motives, and then it is all for naught. When I ran all this by my man, he said, “Having the ‘gift of prophecy/discernment’ doesn’t equal infallibility.” I wholeheartedly agree. You’ve also written about birth control, and having lots of kids, but I believe that our liberty in Christ gives us lots of latitude. I appreciate your passion about schooling, and your obedience to God, since you believe that He wants you to homeschool, but you leave no room for others who differ in that endeavor. And, please don’t underscore that you aren’t talking about homeschooling necessarily. You are arguing against public schools, and calling out those (not by name) who, after prayerful consideration and great thought, send their kids to public school. You believe that it’s wrong for all. Period. What if, hypothetically, and please don’t assume that something like this can’t happen, Aaron decided that the kids needed to be in school, and he thought that public school was the best choice? What would you do?

    Finally, in NO WAY am I advancing the idea that we shouldn’t involve ourselves in our kids’ lives. I start nearly every school day w/devotions, we pray as a family, we talk to the kids constantly about the things of God (in their growing up years, they may have thought that it was too much!), we remind them of their position in Christ, we encourage them, we talk ALL THE TIME…even now, one of my adult sons calls me on his way home from work a couple of times a week, and we will talk for hours that way. I always tell him that he is only calling me because he has to drive him in a morass of traffic, he needs to pass the time , and his wife is busy w/two kids under three! But, we enjoy talking, and much of our conversation includes talking about the greatness of God, what He’s doing in our lives, etc. It’s a sweet time. We attended EVERY SINGLE ONE OF OUR KIDS’ GAMES (even if it meant tramping across the field because they were playing simultaneously) while they were growing up, they would constantly ask us to pray for them (and we did), we loved each other, we argued w/each other, we sought forgiveness, we memorized whole passages of Scripture, and we NEVER let up. Oh, sure, we got discouraged at times, but we stayed the course. Praise God, they love Jesus today, but that is the work of the Spirit in their hearts. And, that doesn’t mean that they will always love Jesus, either. That is our hope, but our work is nearly complete. The results are God’s. There are no guarantees…as Monica wrote in her comment. We give our kids the tools, and trust God to work from the inside out. It should come as no surprise that kids and adults leave the faith—even those who were homeschooled, Christian-schooled, etc.
    I could write much more, but I am out of time. Time to work out, and I’ve stalled long enough. I’ve proofed this a couple of times, but then added, subtracted, etc., and must move on w/my day. Forgive any mechanical, spelling or typing errors. The syntax may be dubious, as well.

    It is a blistering hot day in the Bay Area of NorCal, so I need to work out now if I hope to stay cool at all.

    • Ashley Rahar says:

      This is my first time reading any of generationcedar.com blog…another fb-er posted it. I thought the post was great, and have very similar views on public school. Personally, I’m working on my pride and gentleness, but I DO believe God’s will is not the public school system…so yes, I would call it a sin to send children to public schools…and Christian schools are not always the answer, as someone pointed out…I don’t have any in my area that are truly Bible teaching.

      With all of that said, my oldest son will be in first grade this year. My husband is not a believer and he insisted on public school for our children. Me, wanting to be submissive, dissapointed, went along with it, for I had *just known* God would come through and keep my little boy at home to homeschool. God didn’t come through with my will, or what I thought was His.

      I’m interested to response in your comment because the situation you suggested, with Aaron, happens everyday!

      Ashley

      • Hannah says:

        I come from Europe and in some countries homeschooling is illegal. Also in some countries like my native Finland private schools are only in big cities. What would you do?
        I think in America the discussion has gotten “too big” over the top about the schooling…They are so many choices and everyone feels their decision is right and that they have a right to have an opinion. Looking from far away it seems pretty funny to think that Christian children in public schools is a sin. Never heard that before.
        What if you were a poor villager in Asia and you had a chance to send your kids to a PUBLIC school in the village to learn to read and write, and you never had that chance yourselves? Are you committing a sin? Or are you embracing God send gift of education for your child and his future?
        Many fights and quarrels gain a lot of perspective when they are set in the big picture: Africa, Asia, Europe…Are Christians there just too sinful because they use public schools? Or is it only sin in white America? Or is this blog only for American Christians?

        Love, Hannah, who always went to public school, always has loved Jesus!

        • Word Warrior says:

          Hannah,

          God’s Word is the same, no matter what country you are in. Most countries who outlaw homeschooling represent the culmination of a culture that has been educated in extreme socialist/commmunist thought…the very thing for which I am trying to warn Americans about. Yes, we still do have the freedom to educate our children and we don’t take that lightly. But if parents keep feigning ignorance about what is really being taught and propagated, our time is coming. It shoudn’t seem “funny” to consider the debate. It is a serious one and you, of all people, having seen those freedoms threatened and/or stolen, should understand the gravity of it.

          • Hannah says:

            I can honor your family’s decision to homeschool, but I cannot understand how you can make a personal decision to become a law for all the Christian families. The way you lash on ALL public schools feels wrong; I am sure there are awful schools but there are wonderful schools as well. I am troubled that you cannot see anything good in other ways of doing things. There is also some sort of ethnic pride: US has freedom of education, so US is better than socialist, communist, atheist, animist, you name it countries. Yes, because I have lived in different countries I can see the problems but it doesn’t mean we are going to form a cocoon as a family. We want to serve, and if God calls us to be a public school family we will joyfully follow Him. God only knows what each family is capable of doing. Honestly, the more I read this kinds of posts, the more reluctant I am to support the view points presented. The attitude does not attract me…it turns something off. But again, your calling and my calling are not the same…

            • Word Warrior says:

              Hannah,

              There are many inconsistencies with your thinking and what you assert toward me.

              “I cannot understand how you can make a personal decision to become a law for all the Christian families.”

              I have not “made a decision” or “become a law”. The Word urges us to TEACH what is good and right. That’s not a “personal decision” but simple obedience to Scripture. If I, on this blog, write about what I believe whole-heartedly is in the Word of God, I have not “become a law” just because you don’t agree with it.

              You clearly don’t even hear my appealing from Scripture. You say there are “good schools and bad schools”. ANY school that denies God as Creator, attempts to educate children apart from the knowledge of God, has inadvertently become a false religion. There is nothing “good” to a Christian about a false religion, no matter what the teachers are like, or how clean the halls are, or how sweet the students there. The major error here is that you are not measuring what is “good” by God’s Word. If that isn’t the beginning of how we determine a thing to be good or bad, there is no point at all in discussing anything. It is impossible for me to “see good” in an educational system that is raising the next generation to deny God. It would be blasphemy to point to a “good” Muslim school and say, “that’s a good place to send my children to be taught how to think about the world”. A humanistic school is NO less.

              I have answered your other comments under said comment.

              • Amanda W. says:

                Had to comment again – as I scroll through the other commentors I just have to shake my head. No one has yet to address the Biblical issues. It’s just “my experience was this” or “we felt led differently” or “it’s ultimately up to God.” Of course it is! However, we are still given instructions… a roadmap, if you will, to God’s best plan for our lives and our children’s lives. Immersing children in a system that does not focus on the bigger, God-centered/Jesus-centered story is useless knowledge. And yes, it is IMMERSION – six to eight hours a day is immersion. I have been there, other readers, and I know that uncomfortable “Well it’s true for HER but different for US” feeling that creeps in, causes anger, results in anecdotal experiences being used as truth instead of God’s Word being supreme… But agree or disagree, take that feeling and just assume its conviction. As such, go and study it out and come back with scripture that supports your stance. Enough experiential-based decisions or “proof.”

                • Cathy says:

                  Or it could be people like me who are sick to death of folks like you calling things “sin” because you’ve deemed it so.

                  This is my comment responding to your comment–“It’s something Christian parents like to tell themselves because it eases the conviction.”

                  Judgmental much? And you know that exactly how? When you impugn heart motives, as in attaching reasons for why someone does something, that is the definition of judging. It’s one thing to believe as you do, but to call one’s motives into question is quite another issue entirely.

                  • Word Warrior says:

                    Cathy,

                    Your anger, no matter how well-articulated, still doesn’t provide a biblical argument against the raised questions–(a major problem for Christians who are called to “rightly divide the word of truth” in important matters such as these):

                    1. Does government school, by default or otherwise, teach a false religion? (Exodus 20:3)

                    2. If a student is learning about the world–its created parts and how we are to function in that world–through the teaching of a false religion, is he not, at least, learning from those who are “exchanging the truth of God for a lie and worshipping the creature rather than the Creator”? (Romans 1:25)

                    3. If I am commanded to “immerse” (Deut. 6) my children in the law of God, raising them in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, making disciples of them, and at the same time I am commanded to NOT “walk” (i.e. listen to, follow, sit under the teaching, etc.) in the counsel of the ungodly, with that command naturally applying to my children, does not establishing the aforementioned “institution of false religion” clearly define the prohibitions? Is there Scriptural evidence to dismiss these clear commands?

                    These are not “opinion-based” assertions, and therefore cannot be human “judgement” either. Using the Word of God to measure a thing is what we’re commanded to do. Being labeled “judgmental” in doing such, especially when the accuser cannot defend the biblical position that has been made is a straw man. I have laid out the Scriptural support for the claim; you have yet to give me Scriptural evidence that makes it invalid.

                    Would this discussion sound differently if the post were titled: “To My Christian Friends and Family Who Have Chosen Pagan Worship…”? And that is NOT intended to be snide at all. I’m just trying to cut through the tightly held, emotional opinions of public school to at least reveal the way I see it.

                    • Cathy says:

                      I am not angry.

                      The Scriptures that you use could be used to make a case for issues other than homeschooling. I don’t look at Psalm 1, and instantly think homeschooling. You apply verses to make the case for homeschooling. And, on the one hand, you state that the bible teaches that PARENTS should be teaching their kids, but then state that Christian schooling is an acceptable way to educate our kids. I think that you misapply Scripture. However, I am content to “allow” you to follow the Spirit when it comes to education of your children. If only if you would do the same for others. You have made your arguments, and yet there are still those who would disagree with you. Why is that?

                      Finally, I responded to Amanda’s STATEMENT and called her judgmental. She said that “It’s something Christian parents like to tell themselves because it eases the conviction.” She knows that how? Sorry, she’s impugning motive, i.e., that Christian parents are making excuses for their choices, as though she has laser vision
                      and can see hearts.

                    • Word Warrior says:

                      Cathy–I understand your explanation about the response to Amanda’s statement. Thank you.

                      In order to “rightly divide the word of truth” as we are trying to do here, there has to be a systematic, logical approach. Basically, “what does the Scripture say” about the question at hand?

                      You said, “The Scriptures that you use could be used to make a case for issues other than homeschooling.”

                      First, the case isn’t being used “for homeschooling”. The case is, “Is government education a biblical option for Christians?” We have to keep the question clear.

                      Second, your statement might be true, but that doesn’t negate its application to any given issue. Are there not Scriptures we use to base a number of our decisions on? I don’t even *get* that statement.

                      You said, “I don’t look at Psalm 1, and instantly think homeschooling.” First, again you keep steering the discussion in the wrong direction. Furthermore, it has nothing to do with “what you think” when you look at a verse. We are not talking about reading Scripture and seeing what “comes to mind”. We are taking an issue–the question of having our children educated under anti-Christian counsel–and holding it up to Scripture. So in light of the question, what does Psalm 1 and the dozens of other Scriptures that speak to it say?

                      Regarding your assertion that I am misapplying Scripture, I would ask you to explain “how”? Scripture is clear about what kind of counsel/teaching/instruction we are to submit ourselves to, how we are to handle false teaching and anything that “exalts itself against the knowledge of God”. If this doesn’t apply to the EDUCATION (i.e.) counsel/teaching/instruction that we should give our children, I think we might as well toss out the Bible for any measure of “how then shall we live”.

                    • Word Warrior says:

                      The only logical systematic way of looking at this issue from Scripture (which we simply must do) is to answer these questions:

                      1. Does the Bible forbid certain types of instruction, knowledge, counsel, etc. If so, what specifically does it forbid? Or if not “forbid”, what does it say?

                      2. Does government education fall into the category of what is forbidden/warned against in Scripture?

                      Those two points are the cases on which the outcome of the original question rests.

    • Word Warrior says:

      Cathy–Love ya.

      But, what I need from you is a biblical exegesis defending the points I’ve made in light of Scripture (false religion, the religion of Humanism being taught in school, our express commandment to “flee” from false teaching, etc.) Personal experience has no bearing on Scriptural directives. I’m willing to admit fallibility on this subject…believe me, I would LOVE to and then I could rest 😀 But so far, the points I hang my argument on *from Scripture* have not been dismantled from Scripture. Here I stand.

      • Cathy says:

        Kelly, please cite Scripture, chapter and verse, that speaks to the idea of public schooling being sin. Often Deuteronomy 6:7 is used as proof that as parents we have the responsibility to teach our children at home. I beg to differ that this speaks to public schooling.

        And, while you’re @ it, please cite Scripture that proves that we will be stand before God for sending our kids to public school (as another commenter also stated and agreed w/you).

        Certainly, I can’t point to specific Scripture that allows for sending kids to a public school. There are no specific verses about all kinds of subjects, but we use Scripture for God’s wisdom, to fellowship w/Him, and as a manual for life. BTW, I found it rather curious that you took issue w/PSMama w/regard to the passage that she cited, stating that the context was about meat offered to idols. While that is true, it is also true that the principle is what should be noted, not the particular incident. We don’t live in that culture, but we can still understand that love trumps our liberty in Christ, and that we should deny ourselves for the sake of weaker Christians.

        I don’t like the notion that you pretty much indicted me for using experience to prove my point. I didn’t do that. I merely gave you my background, which has ZERO to do w/any mode of schooling. I don’t have all the answers, and I don’t tell people that they should be a stay-at-home mom, or homeschool their kids, etc. I tell them that I’ll pray for them to make wise decisions, etc. I can point them to passages that instruct us to ask for wisdom. (James 1)

        And, you have a conundrum on your hands when you label public schooling “sin (even if only by inference)”, and you came pretty close to doing that, (you said that it was “debatable”). Commenter Ashley believes it to be sin, but her unbelieving husband is insistent that her son attends public school. Ashley, it also presents a conundrum for you. If that is the case, aren’t you also in sin? If you believe it to be sin for you, then going along w/your husband is sin by virtue of Romans 14:23, right? I’m not trying to be a punk, but this is where I think you’re on a slippery slope.

        And, it isn’t a matter of “rebutting,” as yet a different commenter praised you for doing so well. The one question that you continue to fail to answer is how other solid believers differ on this issue, and why you’re right, and they’re wrong. Why is that? Are they less mature Christians?

        I may not say much more on the subject since you know my position. It’s cool if you don’t send your kids to public school, but allow others to be guided by the same Spirit of God that is in work in you.

        Good night.

        • Word Warrior says:

          Cathy,

          Didn’t mean to “indict” you; I assumed your background was part of your support of your disagreement. The Scripture I’m asking you to defend which no one, as of yet, has been able to do, are those (the Bible is full) that expressly warn against “false teaching” (i.e. anything taught against the knowledge of God), following other gods (man, once God is removed), teaching our children truth, (an education apart from the fear of God is a lie, essentially), the counsel of the ungodly, walking with fools, having other gods before me, denying God and his power, worshiping the creature rather the Creator, etc., etc. Those are the Scriptures (the “proof texts”) that provide clear directives for how we are to educate our children. It is a scary place to be able to ignore all of that on the basis of, “there’s no verse that explicitly says…” We make many clear decisions based on the principles of Scripture without “proof texts”.

          • Cathy says:

            A “proof text” is actually a poor way to prove something theologically. In fact, it is almost, if not exactly, the opposite of what you purport it to mean.

            “Proof-texting ignores the context of the passage or chapter in which the particular verse is located, as well as other passages related to the same topic. It also ignores the literary and historical contexts in favor off a concept that sees scripture as a string of vaguely related thoughts, each with inherent truth.” makestraightpaths

            There are plenty of sources that establish the meaning, if you don’t buy the above.

            • Word Warrior says:

              I think I’m utterly confused…you said, “Kelly, please cite Scripture, chapter and verse, that speaks to the idea of public schooling being sin.”

              You said you want me to provide PROOF, from Scripture. I’m explaining that the proof (I have “proof text” in quotation marks because it’s what you asked for, not because that’s what I call it) is all through Scripture. There is no chapter and verse (“proof text”?), though there are specific verses that support my stance. The entire Bible commands us to give our children a Christian education…much better than a proof text.

              • Word Warrior says:

                And perhaps the biggest blind spot here is how we define “education”. I added a quote in the post from R.C. Sproul that hits it:

                “Thinking that education is something different from discipling our children is a sure sign that we have been ‘educated’ by the state. Education is discipleship.”

                So, perhaps this issue would be SO much clearer and easier to discuss if we replaced the word “educate” with “discipleship”. Is it OK for Christian parents to place their children under the discipleship of a false religion and still maintain their responsibility to raise them “in the nurture an admonition of the Lord”? Can they do both? How? If the Hebrews had let the leaders of the Baal-worshipers have their children for most of the day, educating them apart from the law of God, teaching them there is no God and therefore no real right and wrong apart from what man decides, would He have had something to say about that?

                This issue begs, more than anything, that we think critically and systematically, with Scripture as the basis, about what the responsibility of parents really is, what discipleship really is, and what means are necessary to accomplish those.

                Up to this point, not one person has given any substance to the question at hand. No one can defend, from Scripture, the points I’ve made. Everyone is ready to do language gymnastics, go on rabbit trails about definitions of this or that, talk about their personal experience, or insult me.

                But one has yet to biblically, respectfully, simply and honestly, defend my raised concerns.

                • Cathy says:

                  Moses’ formal education was in the Egyptian king’s palace. Argue it to the death, but that is fact. I don’t need to tell you that the Egyptians were pagans, and I can’t imagine that Moses was formally taught to worship the God of Israel.

                  I was correcting your usage of “proof text.” I am certain that you know that term. I used to think that the term meant that you were proving your point when, in fact, it denotes that a “proof text” is one that is often used out of context. That’s all.

                  • Word Warrior says:

                    Please tell me you’re not trying to imply that a rare “narrative” from the Bible removes normative instruction?

                  • Amanda W. says:

                    Also, is it not true that Moses was rooted in his birth mother’s faith from infancy upward to a debatable age? He maintained contact with them and had relationships. Also, having his heart in two places (adopted false religion-based family and birth, true-religion based family) resulted in an act of murder. Again, not exactly the example I think you’re going for!

                • tori says:

                  I’m actually not in agreement with Cathy, but as I read this response to her, the situation of Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. I guess the whispers I hear that go along with the image of their names is that sometimes the state (as in cases when it is illegal to homeschool or Christian school) or our unbelieving husbands (or unhearing husbands in the case of a believer who will not consider homeschooling or Christian schooling) is similar to those 4 being taken from their families… one thing I note is that they were a bit older… and perhaps that’s key? Educating strongly while they are young… before middle school, but in my opinion through middle school, prepares them for such circumstances.

                  And to Cathy, what is the previous commenter you name specifically supposed to do. She is to obey her husband as the Lord, yet she is in sin? No. She is not accountable because He has overruled her.

                  • Cathy says:

                    Tori,

                    We are to only obey authority as long as we don’t sin in doing so. That is the premise. So, Ashley stated that she believes that sending a child to public school is sin. Please reconcile those two warring facts.

                  • Hannah says:

                    What about the slave girl who told her master Naaman and his wife about the prophet of True God. Little missionary she was and a very young one!
                    The first years are critical, and I am all for having young kids home, not in day care!

          • Because I don’t have time to peruse every single post in your archives, I’m curious about how you’re going to completely avoid all this “counsel of the ungodly” with homeschooling. Are you only going to read the Bible for every subject? Because if you are going to provide your kids with a well-rounded education, they will have to read humanistic writers and literature from ungodly people and listen to music by ungodly people. Shakespeare…Mozart…lots of ancient philosophers. And if you do allow them to read those things, you will have to do exactly what Christian public school parents do and explain why some of their ideas/writings/characters run contrary to Scripture.

            Also, “not running after false gods” is an issue that comes into play in many areas of life other than education. Homeschooling is actually an idol (false god) when it is seen as the way to save children from harm rather than God Himself.

            • Word Warrior says:

              You must think about what you’re asking. As a Christian, I have a duty to teach my children the lordship of Christ over everything. That is, I must do it, or find someone else who will teach all things through the lens of truth, acknowledging the Creator as God, and his law as the measure of right and wrong. It is an all-consuming education (education, as I quoted earlier, is discipleship…think Jesus).

              If my children read literature that is humanistic, they are taught that the author has a wrong worldview and worships the god of man and that it’s not OK. This is not what they are taught in the ps classroom. (And as much as I would like to think it happens, I doubt most parents have the time to rebuttal everything that is taught in the classroom, even if they had the rare child who came home and told them all. If they were going to do that, it would be much simpler to just homeschool. That’s the kind of time it would take to counteract the false teaching.)

              It’s not that a Christian education denies the existence of wickedness, it’s that it’s taught for what it is and that makes EVERY bit of the difference in shaping a worldview. (And a well-rounded education can be had without much of the garbage that is required in state schools.) It reminds me of the way promiscuity is “taught” to a child from his peers vs. from his parents. When I was in school, promiscuity was cool because everybody was involved and appearing to have fun. End of story. So I jumped right in.

              Now that I have children who, thankfully, aren’t peer-dependent, they know about promiscuity all the same, but from a completely different perspective–the right one, through the lens of truth.

              Who is the teacher, what are they teaching about a subject, and what worldview is being conveyed?

      • Cathy says:

        Well, since the “reply” link is gone from your comments (on the other thread), I will reply here. I realized, after the fact, that I had written I don’t “think homeschooling” when I read the passages you cited. I meant to write “public schooling, ” but didn’t bother to go back and correct it (since there is no function that allows for editing).

        Again, “not walking in the counsel of the ungodly…” doesn’t denote public schooling to me. And, even after you and others (commenters and otherwise) explain your position, I am STILL content to observe how the Spirit leads us differently. That is where our divergent paths go in opposite directions.

    • Amber says:

      I have often wondered about the discernment issue the same way. How can two people who believe so differently still both have the gift of discernment? In my feeble mind I have narrowed that down a bit.
      1. Possibly one or none actually have the gift.
      2. We are all at different places in our ever growing spiritual wisdom
      and one of us just may not understand certain parts of scripture yet.
      3. Our flesh and experiences can still get in the way of discernment.
      4. And most of all, it is only by the grace of God we have discernment or wisdom of any sort. He decides when, well, the light turns on.

  26. […] schools in the area are full of mostly … … Read more from the original source: To My Christian Friends & Family Who Have Chosen Public School … ← Bible Verse…II Peter 1:2-9 « […]

  27. Sherry says:

    Excellent work, Kelly. Good rebuttals, as well. This is a tricky subject to deal with. Not every homeschooled student will choose to follow God, but they will never be able to claim ignorance, and they will be much more vulnerable to conviction, because they will know the truth! God’s Word will ring true, and it will not return to Him void. I have heard that argument lately that public schooled Christian kids who make it through with their faith intact are stronger for it–but I have spoken with too many of these that have compromised their faith in order to marry the two worlds together. Too often they seem to be Christian in faith but humanists in practice due to their years of indoctrination. I was one of these, so I am not judging, just observing.

  28. Laura says:

    Perhaps there are those homeschoolers who look down their noses at those who don’t, but anyone who has ever homeschooled knows that it is HARD, and once you do it for any length of time, you realize how much you don’t know, and are desperate for any encouragement, help, etc, and I know as the homeschool mom of only 1 official child(the other three are too young yet), the thought of looking down my nose or judging anyone else, is entirely hypocritical, as I know my own struggles to manage and juggle everything I need to get done. However, I am also convinced that homeschooling IS the answer to Christian education–not to say that there can’t be extenuating circumstances (like a parent having an extended illness or something), but for myself, when i “feel” like others who have chosen a path like homeschooling, and I somehow feel “threatened” by it, or it “feels” like “they” are “looking down their noses at me”, a lot of times, that means that God is actually convicting me of my unwillingness to obey HIM, and I am pointing a finger at the obedience of others, saying “they are being self-righteous and looking down their noses!” as a way to try and push away the feelings that I am being disobedient to HIM. I know so many mothers who say that they “pray, and agonize” over how to educate their children, as though somehow the praying and agonizing makes public school the righteous option. The point I think Kelly is making is the fact that the founders of the public school education philosophy were evil men, who were enemies of God by their own admission, and who knew the BEST way to gain the next generation’s loyalty was to gain their minds and to guide and direct those young impressionable children by means of guiding toward their natural instincts(which are wicked and deceitful), and toward their peer group(and 1 clean child cannot play with 6 dirty children and come away clean-ER–the dirt/sin will always rub off!) Certainly, every parent will have to give an account to how they handled their responsibility of their children. Each person must face that. And it’s not impossible for a Christian child to stay that way in a public school environment, but you’ll be fighting an uphill battle, bullying, bad world-view, and peer pressure along the way…why waste time trying to unteach the bad, when you have all that time that you could be instilling the good?(and believe me, there is enough natural badness in each child, without adding to it the sinfulness of the peer group!)

  29. Carmen says:

    I am a public school teacher and my two children attend a local private school. Thank you so much for not blaming teachers for the Godlessness that exists in public schools.

  30. val says:

    I’m going to make this short. God is not taught in the Pblic schools. There is no Bible reading or prayers, but the children are not taught to be against God or Atheism. They are taught there ABC’s and 123’s. I have a 8th grader, a 3rd grader and a kindergartener. I am presented / their curiclam at the beginning of each school year. I know exactly what is being taught, and I am please. I was never a great student. Just my opinion, but since you were once a teacher, of course homeschooling comes easy to you, for the rest of parents maybe not so much. My one daughter has Down syndrome and I thank God everyday her public school teachers and her team of therapist. I don’t send my kids to school for bible study. We do that at home and at church. My kids have never in anyway, shape or form been taught that there is no God , feminism, or anything else against our families religion…ever(at their public school).I’m really tired of reading about homeschooling parents thinking that is the only way. What the heck are you going to do when your kids go to college. Will you let them?

  31. val says:

    Sorry for all the typos,I swear it’s this ipad that is so hard to type on, not my public education. lol

  32. Jessica says:

    I agree with you!

    I would love to homeschool. My husband is not on board and I can’t do it without his support. This year I plan to volunteer more in the classroom. I really do not know what it’s like. I have volunteered for class events and field trips and have unfortunately met a few kids with zero respect for others.

    As my family has grown in their Christian faith (all 4 of us now, yay!) I am convicted to teach the kids (and myself) with the bible. So I guess we’ll be doing a bible homeschool along with public school. I really can’t wait to get started!

  33. Jennifer says:

    Wow, I feel the same about “being annoying” when it comes to standing against things I hate. But if people are truly unpleasant and dabbling in/promoting nasty stuff, at the end of the day it’s their ways I lose sleep over.

  34. Jennifer says:

    Val, there are online college courses and different ways to educate yourself at home.

  35. LVH says:

    Kelly,
    I take concern with quite a few things that are presented in your argument:

    1.) “The educational system of the state, by their own admission, is NOT neutral and teaches a religion opposed to Christianity.”

    Within that source are genetic fallacies. A list of quotes does not (and should not) constitute as evidence for your claim. So what Vladimir Lenin said “corrupt the young and get them away from religion.” That does not prove that this is actually happening in public schools.

    2.) In your other two sources, they both claim that the Supreme court “declared Humanism to be a religion” via the case of Torcasco vs. Watkins. That is a blatant lie! In the footnotes, the judge wrote “Among religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism and others.” Footnotes are not a ruling but considered to be dicta; Opinions of a judge that do not embody the resolution or determination of the specific case before the court (source).

    3.) I have read through all of your resources within the current post and also your other posts and I cannot find any research that Secular Humanism is considered a religion by our government or that the “religion of Secular Humanism” is being taught in our public schools. In fact, I found even more genetic fallacies; a bunch of quotes from various people. Do you have any research or data that support your claims?

    LVH

    P.S.: Your first source and your last source also did not provide any references for their quotes or information. While it does not automatically make your argument invalid, it is considered to be in poor taste to provide sources like that; especially since you are so passionate about the subject and desire to share the truth. 🙂

    • Word Warrior says:

      LVH,

      There was actually NO need at all for any quotes, I simply included them (and there are thousands more) because people are so hard to convince on this issue with my words alone–the quotes demonstrate that I’m not just making stuff up, that there is an active and aggressive push to rid the system of all “superstitious” religion, replacing it with Humanism.

      The reason there is no need for quotes, proof, sources, etc. is this: If you understand Scripture, you know that in the vacuum of of a Deity it is filled with “the worship of man”. Every man alive has a religion. (Religion: a particular system of faith and worship) I don’t need the government to say whether it declares humanism to be a religion (??) to know that it is. That’s like saying, “until the government declares the sky blue, you’re going to have to do better than that to prove it”.

      We are commanded to worship God, acknowledge Him in ALL things, and especially educate our children from a biblical worldview. A system that does not do that, educates from a humanist worldview–a different religion. It’s a TOTAL, radical change in the way we teach them to think and process the world.

      Humanism is a false religion because God said it is, not because anyone else does (though plenty do).

      • LVH says:

        Kelly,
        The beauty of taking a side, debating and/or presenting an argument is that you need to be able to defend your position and to do it well. My issue with your position is that your sources lack credibility when they boldly proclaim falsehoods. They lack credibility when they provide information or list quotes and do not cite their sources.

        1.) You’re being inconsistent when you say “There was actually NO need at all for any quotes, I simply included them (and there are thousands more) because people are so hard to convince on this issue with my words alone.” You’re saying that Scripture should be the only source for your argument but that people are not convinced by your scriptural evidence? This may be something known as a weak argument or weak case.

        2.) “I don’t need the government to say whether it declares humanism to be a religion.” Kelly, this is a straw man because my argument or point wasn’t that the government should define what is a religion or not. My point was that two of your sources proclaimed falsehoods and thus lack credibility.

        3.) “If you understand Scripture, you know that in the vacuum of a Deity it is filled with “the worship of man”. This is a subtle way of masking the fact that Christians can interpret the same passage in a multitude of ways. I do not believe that Scripture presents a black and white picture of worship (either you worship God or man). One could worship neither.

        4.) “Every man has a religion…a particular system of faith and worship.” By this definition, secular humanists are not religious. What actions do secular humanists take that deem them to be of a religion or religous?

        5.) “We are commanded to worship God, acknowledge Him in ALL things, and especially educate our children from a biblical worldview. A system that does not do that, educates from a humanist worldview–a different religion.”

        Can you expand on this more? If a child’s physic teacher does not mention God at every lesson, he/she is educating from a humanist view? What about when a child is placed in soccer or ballet or drama or piano lessons? The teacher must teach these disciplines constantly mentioning or pointing back to God?

        Since education is not limited to childhood, what happens when we take classes as adults? Do Christian adults need to take classes only from instructors who teach from a biblical worldview? Should Christians only apply to Christian-based medical schools or accounting schools or trade schools? I’m thinking of signing up for a three month bakery class at my local craft store and reading over their information, it doesn’t seem to be any mention of teaching from a biblical worldview.

        LVH

        • Word Warrior says:

          LVH,

          I don’t fully understand all your comments (especially #1) and based on the fact that I’m pretty sure we have different worldviews altogether (you said, “I do not believe that Scripture presents a black and white picture of worship (either you worship God or man). One could worship neither.”–this is incorrect. Everyone worships something, whether they call it “worship” or not)…in addition to my having expounded, VERY clearly on my position, why I believe what I believe, Scripture to back it up and a number of additional articles I’ve since linked to (which you didn’t comment on), I will not be repeating myself.

        • Word Warrior says:

          LVH–What specifically are you referring to by this comment: “your sources lack credibility when they boldly proclaim falsehoods”? And I’ll reiterate again, that I wanted to use quotes by men who have had influence in the modern educational system or after whom we patterned our system (America originally adopted the idea of compulsory education from Prussia, so looking at their underlying intentions helps us see the parallel intent in our own country) because so few parents even have a clue that the ideology of “humanism” and “destroying Christianity in the classroom” exists. Still, I’m unsure about which falsehoods you’re referring.

          • LVH says:

            The falsehood I’m referring to is in my first comment:

            ” In your other two sources, they both claim that the Supreme court “declared Humanism to be a religion” via the case of Torcasco vs. Watkins. That is a blatant lie! In the footnotes, the judge wrote “Among religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism and others.” Footnotes are not a ruling but considered to be dicta; Opinions of a judge that do not embody the resolution or determination of the specific case before the court (source).”

            I’m trying to demonstrate that your argument/position is flawed and contains fallacies. You used sources that contained falsehoods and quotes, alone, do not provide evidence that the modern-day classrooms are teaching the “religion” of humanism.

            Someone in history said something should or will happened, therefore it has? That is a genetic fallacy.

            Where is your evidence or proof that it has happened? Where is your proof that the “religion” of humanism is happening right now in public schools? What are they teaching?

            Since you believe everyone worships something can you please point me to how you are defining “worship.”

            Kelly, I’m trying to follow your logic (and interpretation of Scripture):

            Public schools do not teach from a biblical worldview or acknowledge God in their education.

            “An education apart from the fear of God is a lie, essentially…”We are commanded to worship God, acknowledge Him in ALL things, and especially educate our children from a biblical worldview. A system that does not do that, educates from a humanist worldview–a different religion.”

            What you’re saying is that the only way Christian children can be educated is one from a teacher/school/course that holds a biblical worldview and acknowledges God in every problem, lesson, homework ect? Education in mathematics, physics, music, dance, cooking and art all must be biblically based?

            There is a craft store near my house that is offering a bakery course (and I’m thinking of singing up my daughter for their art classes). It will not mention God or teach from a biblical worldview; so it is essentially a lie?

            My daughter just attended a math summer camp sponsored by a tech company. They did not mention God or have a biblical worldview; so it essentially was a lie?

            Again, trying to understand your logic and/or position.

            LVH

            • Word Warrior says:

              “How then might we do math in our homeschools, in a way that is consistent with Psalm 78, in a way consistent with John Milton’s wisdom on the purpose of education, in a way consistent with the injunction in Deuteronomy 6 to teach our children when they lie down and when they rise up? Is it sufficient to stop and say a prayer or two before getting down to brass tacks? It’s perfectly appropriate to pray before we do our math. I’m certainly not against prayer. But how you teach math rightly is by always remembering why you teach math, and more important, by always reminding the children. We must first confess, then profess that two and two make four – not apart from Jesus, not beside Jesus, but because it is Jesus’ two and Jesus’ two and Jesus’ four. It all belongs to him. We confess and we profess that he invented math and he rules over it. He is the reason for it. Math is always objective, never neutral. That is, it speaks truth because Jesus is the truth.” R.C. Sproul Jr.

              The answer to this question requires a more thorough one than a short quip. Sproul’s article, The Goal of Education, helps explain it better than I can. I agree with him totally on the matter.

              And I while I think there is a difference in taking an isolated class (art/bakery) vs. spending most of the day under the tutelage of a school, yes, I would still choose teachers carefully (considering the ages of my children–my adult children ARE now ready for their “mission field”, so that would look different than my 9 yr. old taking a class) because worldviews are always being transmitted. I just thought of an example I heard a friend tell of being at a bakery class where the teacher claimed to be a Christian. When her caked turned out well, she said, “Oh, I must have good Karma today!” Seems small, but it’s a demonstration of the point I’m trying to make.

              Another friend of mine chose a music teacher–fairly harmless, no? Well, the music teacher disagreed with the parents’ worldview. She steadily dropped subtle “suggestions” about her disagreement. It had a huge, negative effect on the child until the parents finally realized what was going on.

              To answer, “how do you know humanism is being taught”? This seems overly simply to understand, nevertheless, I believe you are asking sincerely. Humanism is the default religion in the absence of Divine Being. It is “giving human beings a special place in the universe on account of their abilities and faculties.” If God is not the ruling presence in the universe, I am. If He does not set forth the law of right and wrong, I do (someone, after all, has to). So whether it has been openly declared that “humanism is taught in the classroom” (and it has) or not, it is the religion that fills the vacuum when God is removed.

              Hope I was clear…dealing with a miscarriage and some little ones who feel icky this morning. And yet, a compelling to answer.

        • Cathy says:

          I appreciate your thoughtful response to Kelly’s post.

          I would, though, take issues with your statement:

          “…I do not believe that Scripture presents a black and white picture of worship (either you worship God or man). One could worship neither.”

          As Bob Dylan sang, “You Gotta Serve Somebody.” This is a black-and-white issue.

          “No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.” Luke 16:13 and also Matthew 6:24

          If you’re not serving God and worshipping Him, then you’re serving yourself.

          • LVH says:

            One cannot serve two masters is what the verse is saying. That verse is part of a bigger passage in which Jesus relates a parable in which an account manager wasted his boss’s money and how one must be wise in dealing with worldly wealth instead of wasting it away.

            I’m saying that one can worship neither God nor man but to understand better, I was interested in how Kelly views the definition of “worship” to be.

  36. 6 arrows says:

    Although Kelly’s post is not about homeschooling, I can’t help but notice and feel a burden for all the ladies here who want to homeschool, but their husbands do not. My heart goes out to you, Karen, Brenda, Cassandra, Ashley, Jessica and anyone else reading here who is in the same situation.

    Our family has been homeschooling for 14 years, but there was a time that I wanted to homeschool and my husband did not, so we didn’t. However, due to a change in my husband’s job situation when our oldest was about to enter 3rd grade, the Lord brought us to a place where my husband was receptive to the idea of homeschooling, despite his earlier reservations.

    I tell you this to encourage you ladies that the Lord is always working in our lives, and sometimes brings about in unexpected ways the very changes we hope and pray for.

    If I may offer some tips while you wait on the Lord:

    1. Pray.
    2. Honor your husband. Don’t let the thought of homeschooling become an idol that you withhold some of your love from him for not allowing you to homeschool.
    3. Remember that honoring him doesn’t mean you can’t go to him with a respectful appeal now and then.
    4. Be informed about the problems with public schools and gently encourage your husband to read some of the information you have about that.
    5. Get to know other homeschool families in your neighborhood or church or anywhere it’s natural to interact family to family. Sometimes husbands just aren’t very familiar with any HS families, and getting to know some HSers helps them to be more comfortable with the idea of homeschooling. (Don’t seek them out for the purpose of convincing your husband, though. Just socialize as it is natural.)
    6. Look for the good in your present situation.
    7. Trust in the Lord with all your heart. 🙂

    I will commit to praying for you ladies. God’s blessings to you.

  37. Word Warrior says:

    R.C. Sproul says it so well, as always:

    “Consider for a moment the government’s schools. You can count on one group of Christians at the local state school to get in a dither over the propagation of Darwinist dogma, to get hot and bothered over sundry sexual curricula. You can also count on other Christians to get rather defensive about what so upsets the first group of Christians.

    What both sides miss are the potent subtleties that are built right into the system. Far more damaging than whatever New Age heresy that might be spoken in this classroom or that is what is not spoken in any classroom- that Jesus Christ is Lord. Now my beef here isn’t that the public schools aren’t holding classes on theology. My concern is they miss the one unifying truth that binds together every other truth. Because the ground of all truth cannot even be mentioned, the truth has no grounding, and, in the words of TS Eliot, the center cannot hold.” http://rcsprouljunior.blogspot.com/2011/07/for-whom-bells-toll.html

  38. Word Warrior says:

    And again…from, “The Goal of Education” (Great read, from When You Rise Up)

    “Puritan poet John Milton understood well not only that education cannot be “neutral,” but also what its purpose is: “The end of learning is to repair the ruin of our first parents by regaining to know God aright, and out of that knowledge, to love Him, to imitate Him, to be like Him.”3 How might the left howl if those on the religious right actually followed Milton ’s lead? Understand also that when Milton said “God,” he did not mean the generic “to whom it may concern” god of our culture. He meant the God of the Bible. Instead the religious right is content to fight for cultural conservativism. Not long ago there was a public hullabaloo over an American history textbook approved by the New York State Board of Regents. It seems this text informed the students about the person and work of George Washington Carver, yet managed to cover American history with no mention of George Washington. As bad as that is, I am puzzled that those Christians who are a part of the religious right are more upset about the absence of the father of this country than they are about the absence of the King of the Universe, the Lord of all things.” R.C. Sproul

  39. Word Warrior says:

    For those interested, I’d be willing to bet these(Dr. R.C. Sproul, Sr.) are some of the best lectures on Christian education ever given…http://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/christian_education/

    Christian Education series

    The Myth of Neutral Education
    The Goal of Education
    The Problem with State Education
    Socrates or Sophism?
    Language, Logic, and God
    Questions and Answers

  40. Word Warrior says:

    “Education is a completely religious endeavor. It is impossible to impart knowledge to students without building on religious presuppositions. Education is built on the foundation of the instructor’s worldview (and the worldview of those who developed the curriculum). It is a myth that education can be non-religious — that is, that education can go on in a vacuum which deliberately chooses to exclude the basic questions about life. It is not possible to separate religious values from education. This is because all the fundamental questions of education require religious answers. Learning to read and write is simply the process of acquiring tools to enable us to ask and answer such questions.

    Public education can approach this problem in one of two ways. The first is to refuse to address such questions. We have already seen that such an attempt is impossible. If any information is transferred at all, it will assume the truth of certain presuppositions. Every subject, every truth, bears some relationship to God. Every subject will be taught from a standpoint of submission or hostility to Him. The second alternative is the hidden agenda. The agenda is implemented when the state gives religious answers to the fundamental questions but hides the fact that it is doing so.[3] The religion is humanistic, and is taught with the power of the state behind it. Thus, a church has been established by law, but it is not a Christian church. Without realizing it, many Christian parents are requiring their children to attend.” Doug Wilson, http://www.cambridgestudycenter.com/the-biblical-antithesis-in-education/

  41. tori says:

    Great article. Good responses.

    I became a little confused (as you said you were) by Cathy’s comments about proofs (asking for) and then chiding you for pointing to some by explaining that proof texts were not a wise choice.

    Overall, I’m grateful you’ve put yourselve out there.

    I have also felt that I have the gift of prophecy, though perhaps in a slightly different way from you. I believe I can see how things are coming together to create what is predicted in Biblical Revelation. Alarming and upsetting at times, for sure, but as I’ve grown in Christ… wonderful because I’m the kind of girl that want to know and understand everything. 🙂 (Yes, I know I can’t and won’t, but it sure if fun to try.)

    • Word Warrior says:

      Thank you, Tori 😉

      • Cathy says:

        Tori,

        Wow. I didn’t “chide” Kelly. I questioned her use of the term “proof text.” Kelly and I don’t mince words with each other, and we have often corresponded through email. She has no problem defending her position, and I defend mine, as well. However, I only explained that the term “proof text” is sort of an oxymoron…that’s why I left her the definition. If truth be told, we “chide” each other.

  42. Kacie says:

    Let’s take a step back and do some hypothetical thinking, if you’d humor me.

    First, should a Christian parent send her child to an Islamic school? A Jewish one? A Buddhist school? If not, why?

    If we wouldn’t send our children to those such schools, then why send them to another school with another anti-biblical worldview (public schools)?

    Now, consider a scenario where we were all picked up and sent to an island that was previously uninhabited.

    On our island, we have people from a variety of worldviews. We’re declaring it a new country and we need to figure out a way to educate and disciple our children.

    A group of Christians gather to discuss the way to approach it for their children.

    Do you suppose they’d copy the United States model of public education as it is in 2012 for their own? Or do you think they’d come up with a different way to do it?

    I’m posing these hypothetical because I think it’s important we challenge our own thinking on the status quo with regard to how Christians treat public school.

    • Hannah says:

      Because we are missionaries in a @resistant to Gospel@ country, our oldest went to public school. Religion is not taught as a subject there, but everyone is religious. A great chance to be part of the community, get to know people, shine the love of Jesus to her teacher and her class mates and the mothers’ of the class mates.

      Again, God does not call every family to move abroad to unreached places and does not call every family to public schools, be He indeed calls many. He is greater than you think He is!

    • Dean says:

      And what about Islamic, Jewish, Buddhist, agnostic and atheistic parents?
      Why would they have to send their kids to Christian public schools you are advocating for, financed by their hard earned money, in a country of religious freedom which was established in the supreme law of the land together with the clause separating church and state?

      All of you here are so insecure in your beliefs and so scared that once taught critical thinking your children will see clear as a day that all your stories about Him and his word are nothing but delusions passed down from generation to generation in a vicious circle of brainwashing starting the minute a child utters its first word. A vicious circle which will soon be completely broken and untenable as this civilization further embraces science and technology as core values.

      Just ask yourself this simple question: If your “Christian child” was taken away from you at six months old and brought up in a very religious Muslim family until 18 years old would that child become a Christian or a Muslim? Would that child believe in Jesus or Mohammad, would that child pray to your god or the god of the family it grew up in?

      The answer is painfully simple and unfortunately for you very obvious, showing clearly that someone’s religion (or lack of religion) is nothing but a result of early childhood brainwashing, not something that is innately present in a human being regardless of upbringing and education.

      That is why you find secular schools to be so dangerous. That is why you think public school is your enemy. Because you were brainwashed early on, and although deep down you know it’s all a bunch of nonsense, you just can’t accept it and it scares the daylight out of you to think that your child will find a way out of your collective delusion and no longer have that horrible bond with you…

  43. MelissaJoy says:

    VERY Good insight Kacie! I think you hit the nail right on the head. Most of the defense of public school stems from the core belief that public school is “neutral” or at least “neutral enough” to *allow* their children to attend–EDUCATION IS NOT NEUTRAL!

    Thank you so much for the enlightenment 🙂

  44. homeschool newby says:

    I posted this on an old public school bashing post, but I’ll post here too since it’s more recent:

    I just came across this blog and it just breaks my heart. I thought it would be a place of encouragement for Christian families. Instead, the focus seems to be to cause division in the body of Christ by bashing public education and judging others on their choices for their family (not directing others to repent of sin but judging – looking down upon). As a former school teacher, I will readily admit that there are problems with public school, some more severe than others depending on where you live. However, as an Evangelical Christian seminary graduate I can say with confidence, NO WHERE is there a Biblical mandate on how to school your children. Twisting scripture to fit what you feel is right for your family is not real justification for what you think. Don’t take scripture out of context to fit your beliefs. We should all be spending time encouraging each other in EVERYTHING, every walk of life, instead of casting judgment for different decisions. I may be homeschooling my children but it is not because I think I’m holier for doing it. Far from it! I am a product of public school. I became a Christian while attending public school. I had Christian friends and teachers while attending public school. I also learned how to live out my faith in the world and remain true to Christ throughout. I have a Christian worldview. Why? Because my parents taught me all of those things and took me to church where I met Jesus and learned to walk in his grace. To think for a second that public school children will be “less Christian”, brainwashed, and all the other narrow-minded ideas that have been expressed here, is to have put God in a box that says, “I can only do my best work if children are homeschooled or attend a Christian school.” Doesn’t sound like the all-powerful God that I know. I pray that I never fall into a bubble of believing that what I do and say for my family is the only way and even worse a “holier” way. Let’s humble ourselves as we seek to follow Christ and love others the way He loved them. Let’s build up the body of Christ instead of tearing it down. Love and encourage each other in Christ, not in your personal convictions. Be the hands and feet of Jesus, not a voice of division.
    I’ll add…I too have the gift of prophecy (as you define it) and I do not think God would be pleased in anyway with the division that this post creates. The scriptures you’ve cited are true (of course!), however the ideas your pinning them too are of your own opinion and the opinion of those you cited. Not my opinion. When I was a public school teacher my students were well aware of my faith. We prayed together, we discussed the Bible, and we encouraged each other to walk in Christ. I didn’t teach humanism and I’m sorry if you felt you did. Every school is different, every area is different, district, state, etc. You cannot lump all of public schooling into one pot. As suggested earlier, go back to scripture and read about the culture of the people that our Godly forefathers lived among and were schooled with then come back and say that God has ordained homeschooling or private, Christian school as the only way. In reality He had NOTHING to say about it, but a whole lot to say how we live among others. And THIS is not it!

    • Word Warrior says:

      And I answered, so I’ll repost here as well:

      HN: I’m so saddened and sorry you feel this way. THIS is what breaks my heart: “NO WHERE is there a Biblical mandate on how to school your children”

      That there are Christians, let alone “seminary graduates” who think this way? It is no wonder why we are experiencing such judgement of our own making in our youth.

      The Bible is FILLED with how to “educate” our children. Education means “discipleship” and the command and duty is written all over Scripture, of which we will give account. I would encourage you to read my most recent post (not that I think you’ll be convinced if you’ve made up your mind, unless you willing to let the status quo be challenged with the word of God) and especially these links, which I linked to in the comments:

      The post: To My Christian Friends & Family Who Have Chosen Public School
      The Goal of Education
      For Whom the Bell Tolls

      My heart-felt prayer is that we will be willing to see the clear mandates of Scripture that God gives to parents. That we will see how much he hates those who hate Him, and shudder at the thought of sending our children to be counseled and mentored and DISCIPLED under a system that hates Him. God forbid. And God forbid we decline to make these truths known for fear of “dividing”. (“I did not come to bring peace, but a sword”….if necessary.)

      • Cathy says:

        But, Kelly, if the biblical mandate is that, as parents, we are to educate our children, as you state, then how could any choice but homeschooling be the correct choice, based on your hypothesis? Because when you send your kids to ANY school but home, then someone else is “disciplining/teaching” them.

        I accept your choices, but I believe that as Christians, we also have a choice to send our kids to a public school, if that’s where we believe that God is leading. From my perspective, and what I know of God’s Word, I think to state your case so vehemently, and condemn public schooling as evil, that is when I wonder if you’re doing more harm than good.

        Again, you and I differ, and on this one, may never see eye-to-eye, but I hope that we’ll remember that we have the same Father, and because of that truth, we can live in peace…even 3000 miles apart. Today, we had a barn burner, and you’ve had a rough day.

        No need to respond…it’s late where you are.

      • Cathy says:

        Sorry missed your Matthew 10:34 reference…that verse is talking about division among people, be it mother-daughter, dad-son, etc., because of the Gospel…nothing to do with public schooling choices.

        • Word Warrior says:

          Precisely my point (again) Cathy. I used the verse referencing “homeschool’s” “let’s not divide” argument. Jesus said there are some times when an issue is serious enough to divide even the closest of family. We don’t shirk truth for the sake of unity. Ever.

          • Cathy says:

            The context (again) is that the GOSPEL divides…homeschooling is not the Gospel. What in the world are you saying? You said, “And God forbid we decline to make these truths known for fear of ‘dividing’ w/regard to the world educating our kids, and then added the Matthew 10:34 passage. That passage has zero to do w/educating our kids, but pertains to the fact the Gospel does, and will continue, to divide. I seriously don’t get what I’m missing. To say that we shouldn’t worry about the “let’s not divide” argument, is a stand-alone argument, but you then say (on the next comment), “Jesus said there are some times when an issue is serious enough to divide even the closest of family. We don’t shirk truth for the sake of unity. Ever.” He didn’t say this about issues, He said it about the Gospel of Christ, or salvation, and that it would divide households. Why are you using that verse? Obviously, homeschool newby didn’t think that you rightly divided (to use a Biblical expression) that verse, either. This stuff is important. Keeping Scripture in context is huge in our faith. Otherwise, we can make it mean almost anything. Please revisit the use of the verse in context.

            • Word Warrior says:

              Cathy,

              I did not take the verse out of context. The gospel of Christ begins at salvation. The gospel of Christ is also the teaching of Christ. If it were not so, He would not have been able to say, “He who loves me will OBEY me.”. So it begs the question, “Obey what?” If the gospel were ONLY “I’m saved” and that’s that, there would be nothing to “obey”. And yet He speaks constantly of “he who does the will of my Father”, and “obeying my commands”, etc. So, the gospel, the thing that will divide people, may be the act of one becoming a follower of Christ, or it may (and most likely will) be a result of living out that salvation–the obedience part. Following Christ costs people because of the way it changes their lives, their decisions and their choices. It transforms. Those are usually the dividing things.

              Now I think obedience to Christ includes fleeing from false teaching, from a religion that exalts itself against the knowledge of God (humanism, the religion of the state), meditating on and teaching my children what is true and right and honest, and obeying the command to make disciples, starting with them. It doesn’t fit with what I learn in Scripture that a parent can “make disciples” of his children, and at the same time allow them to be discipled by a system that is hostile to His very existence. Can’t reconcile the two things no matter how hard I try. Scripture is too clear about what God hates for us to categorize an anti-God education in the “neutral” category. Until He reveals that “all that stuff about truth and fleeing from false worship and immersing your children in the laws of God is null and void”, I must maintain my stance.

  45. homeschool newby says:

    “how” = “method, means of completing the task” Yes, there is a definite calling to disciple your children all through scripture. As I stated, I am a discipled (this is always in progress, isn’t it?) fully-devoted follower of Christ and this occured while attending a public school and a public college, while I worked in a public school, and still while I live in a pagan world. According to your beliefs, how did this happen?
    “I did not come to bring peace, but a sword” Again, scripture taken out of context. Way out of context.
    Did you attend seminary? What is your Biblical training? Just curious. Seriously, I’m curious…not being condescending and don’t want it to come across that way.

    • MelissaJoy says:

      I only have a minute to reply, so this is not going to be extremely complex and in-depth, but I just want to say in response to all of the comments such as, “I came out fine from public school, how do you suppose that happened?”.

      How many of you who were public schooled had parents who were well-informed about Christian education (homeschool, private school, tutoring)? Many of the people I personally have met who say “I came out just fine” either had parents who themselves were not believers or had no inclination whatsoever to anything other than public school. Therefore, in such a situation, I believe that God does the same as He does for the impoverished, the hurting, and has mercy on them. God can call someone out of *anywhere*, that does not mean that where you came from you are to go back to.

      As for those who have been informed of what God says about education and discipleship, “If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.” James 4:17

      • MelissaJoy says:

        Again, nobody is saying a “system” is a sin vs godly. I know this will get misunderstood just as so many of Kelly’s posts have been misunderstood. I urge you sisters (and brothers) to not have a personal attachment to public school and be open to “what if?” God IS saying it’s sinful to send your children there–after all, you won’t “find him” there. Public school is not neutral; God says “whoever is not for me, is against me”…

        • Cathy says:

          You know, Melissa, I also “don’t find God” @ most of the businesses, be it a grocery store, a park, etc., that I frequent, either. That isn’t a prerequisite for whether or not I spend my money there, or patronize a place.

          My role here on this planet is to glorify God and serve Him. I resent the notion that anyone who sends their kids to public schools is in sin. That isn’t up to you to determine. If you think it’s sin, then don’t send your kids to public school, because then it would be sin.

          I have been a believer since I was four, and I am almost old enough to be Kelly’s mom…almost. My life is centered around Jesus. I can barely talk about His greatness, mercy and grace (which I will never be able to fathom) w/out getting choked up. I try to be faithful to His Word by studying it, attending studies, praying, etc. I try to work on the disciplines of grace. I am always open to ideas, hearing God’s Word and being challenged. I ask God to change me through His Spirit on a continuum. Over the years, I have changed what I believe theologically (from Arminian to Reformed), and even what I believe about sin, e.g., I was brought up believing that drinking was sin. While I still don’t drink, I understand that the Bible teaches that to get drunk is sin…so is overeating. But, I would no more tell someone who believes that it is sin for him to drink that it wasn’t, than a man in the moon. I tell you all that to say that I find it outrageous that you have indicted lots of solid Bible-believing folks when you “God IS saying it’s sinful to send your children there…” when it isn’t a matter of being stubborn, or closed-minded. If after prayerful consideration, thought and seeking God’s will in a myriad of ways about schooling isn’t good enough for you, then I guess there is nothing more to be said.

          • MelissaJoy says:

            Thank you for the reply, I enjoyed reading your thoughts!

            I am concerned that 8+ hours per day of indoctrination at a government school is likened to patronization of a business. Would you agree that perhaps that was not a most accurate comparison? Or is that the level you see your children’s education? Forgive me if the tone seems demeaning, that’s not my intention. I’m not criticising–just asking.

      • Jennifer says:

        My parents are believers.

  46. homeschool newby says:

    PS- I read your most recent post. It was the first I read that lead to the others. I challenge the status quo on a daily basis just by living out a life devoted to Christ. I seek the Word of God in everything I do. I get his clear mandates to me as a parent. What I don’t get is how you think YOU know what God has called me to do. You are falling into a very legalistic approach to how you interpret scripture. In my opinion you are using it to form to what you believe instead of reading if for what it is in the setting it was intended for. My prayer for you is that the Holy Spirit will open your eyes to what is truth and what is opinion. What are the essentials to our Christian faith (discipling/training our kids in the Lord) and what are our choices in the way we live it out (how we educate our children. Educate…not disciple.) And with this we will just have to agree to disagree, and I will find more encouraging blogs to help me in my homeschooling journey.

    • Word Warrior says:

      Homeschool Newby,

      I don’t think I know what God has called YOU to. We are all called to the same thing….the glorify God and make Him known. My prayer is that the Holy Spirit would open your eyes to what is truth and what is opinion. Because ESSENTIAL to the Christian faith is how we disciple our children (the nations), and we all have the same biblical instruction in principles AND in Jesus example.

      It is incomprehensible that God would proclaim, throughout Scripture, his “abhorring” His people “following after other gods”, having “other gods before Me”, “worshiping what is created rather than the Creator”, forsaking truth, forgetting His principles, etc., but would not haven any opinion of our placing our children under the instruction, counsel and discipleship of those who outwardly proclaim their hatred of God. Even as I write this, it seems so clear, so simple, that I find it mind-boggling to believe that the issue even needs to be discussed among Christians.

      You accuse that I’ve “twisted Scripture”. Wow. How is it twisting Scripture to REPEAT what God has said? That if “someone causes one of these little ones to stumble, death would be better for him”. Yet, it is reasonable to put my little one under a teaching that denounces Christ and claim the Bible doesn’t speak on the matter?

      I think one of the blindspots in this discussion is an understanding of terms. You said the Bible doesn’t tell us how to “school” our children. In fact it does not. Nor does it tell us to “school” them at all. Our overarching duty is to raise them in the admonition of the Lord. Deut. 6 gives practical “how-to” and the rest of Scripture backs it up, being specific about what we should cling to and what we should run from. We are commanded to disciple our children, not “school” them. If we choose to school them, it must be compatible with our discipleship and still must adhere to the principles of Scripture urging us to “think on what is true, right, just and virtuous”.

      If we are to “flee evil”, it would be given that we our to see our children do the same. So define evil: “anything that is raised against the knowledge of God”…”he is not with Me is against Me…”

      We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ”…2 Cor. 10:5

      If my child’s center of instruction willingly raises itself against the knowledge of God, how can I place him there, for most of the day, without my oversight, to be discipled (yes, that is the reality) by this system built on lies (that God isn’t supreme) and still be following God’s commands to “do all in the name of the Lord Jesus”? Or, “A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher.”

      Or whatever directive you want to insert there, there are hundreds. I’m truly astonished that this escapes the knowledge of any true believer. To think that we can separate school, where a child spends most of his time and where most of his thinking is formed, and the rest of life is absurd to me. Teaching my children at home in the evening hours, EVEN IF his faith stays in tact and remains strong, doesn’t negate my neglect to “keep him from false teaching”, of which the state system is full. There is far more than the three R’s being taught; education cannot be neutral, and it’s not some peripheral activity that somehow escapes our duty to scrutinize under the lens of Scripture.

      No, I have not attended seminary. I am a life-long student of the Word.

      • MelissaJoy says:

        Thank you Kelly for this. You did a very good job articulating what I too believe and have found the Word to say on raising children–especially regarding “school”. I think what we all need at one time in our lives or another is to throw off all of what we have learned our children “have to” do and redefine “have to”‘s based on GOD’S WORD alone! (like “my children HAVE to each babyfood from a jar because it’s sterile!” .. um, no… I know, different topic entirely and not about godliness but it’s an example of how easily influenced we are). School is *optional*, yes even legally if you consider that you can still homeschool children (in a few states anyway) without them being tested. That doesn’t mean we become slothful, it’s about our PRIORITIES! We are raising ETERNAL SOULS here! MY priority as a parent, just like every single other parent, is to raise our children in the admonition of the Lord!

        Amen Kelly.

        ~Melissa

    • Word Warrior says:

      Consider:

      “Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.”

      Simply put. Flee. Run from. Do not go near.

      So, what is “idolatry”? Image worship, for sure. But ultimately, anything attempting to replace the glory of God.

      “Idolatry extends beyond the worship of idols and images and false gods. Our modern idols are many and varied. Even for those who do not bow physically before a statue, idolatry is a matter of the heart—pride, self-centeredness, greed, gluttony, a love for possessions and ultimately rebellion against God. Is it any wonder that God hates it?”http://www.gotquestions.org/idolatry-definition.html

      What is the theology (worldview, belief system, etc.) of the government classroom? “There is no God.” Idolatry, in its purest form.

      If that is “twisting Scripture”, then we are operating on two different levels of understanding and there is, therefore, no point in further discussion.

    • Word Warrior says:

      “It is impossible to separate one’s view of God, man, truth, knowledge, and ethics from the educational process. Every day that our children sit behind a desk, they are either being taught to know, love, and obey God or they are being taught to love and obey someone or something that has usurped God’s proper role.” ~ Voddie Baucham

      *He does have a degree in seminary.

  47. Diana says:

    Psalm 1&2 are all you need.

    It boggles my mind that so many cannot see tge heinous agenda of the public school system. Chech out THE CONTINUING COLLAPSE..a column by bruce short at Voddie bauchams website.

    But as kelly mentioned the Bible is clear that we are to immerse our children in the teaching of his truth and not put a stumbling block in their path not to mention the homosexual agenda.

    Thanks for sticking your neck out Kelly. You are such an encouragement. Btw, the term prophet freaked me out too because of my charismatic background though I know anyone pointing out what Gods word says is being a form of a prophet…just no new revelation which is why I dont go for the arguements some use that God told them to do this or that or even that they can be ‘called’ to send kids to public school. It isnt feelings tgat confirm what our calling in life is…it is the Bible. Otherwise it is akin to ‘the Lord told me to leave my husband’ etc.

    Anyway, thanks again. Loved everything you said and my heart bleeds for you moms who are prevented by your hubs. Good advice has been given in that regard…keep praying and be a light to your children and loving to your husbands.

    Sorry I wont be around in case anyone bites my head off. I am not a frequent commenter her…just passing through,lol.

  48. Charity says:

    I didn’t read all the comments here (but I can imagine the tounge lashings you’ve been handling Kelly…bless you), so I may be beating a dead horse by saying this…”education” is SO much more than the three R’s! It isn’t academics. It is a total LIFESTYLE. (How could it possibly be God honoring for our children to be taught how to live from our government?) Maybe this is where the “confusion” lies when it comes to talking about schooling, because the definition of what education truly is, is off. Just my 2 cents worth.

    Thank you for the post Kelly. On a side note, my husband and I absolutely love the family tables that you guys are making. Just beautiful!!

    • MelissaJoy says:

      Read this somewhere, The Bible-believer’s three R’s of schooling:

      Repentance, Reconciliation, and Restoration

  49. Kacie says:

    I don’t like the argument, “I went to public school, and I’m a Christian and I turned out fine.” Kind of like I don’t like the argument “when my kids were little, we didn’t have car seats and they survived.”

    Well uh, ok.

    Yes, our God is big enough that He can redeem any situation. But it doesn’t mean it’s right, even if it turns out ok. Ya know what I mean?

    I went to public school myself, and by the grace of God alone I am a Christian. Not an environment I want for my children by any means.

    Also — public schools are not what they once were. I’m only 9 years removed from high school graduation, and I still can’t believe how much has changed (based on curriculum posted on public school websites, news reports, talking with parents who have their children attend there, etc.)

    • Laura says:

      But isn’t it by God’s grace alone that anyone is saved, homeschooled or not?? You said it’s only God’s grace that saved you, but are you implying that if you are homeschooled, God’s grace doesn’t enter the equation? Homeschooling, however right and good it might be, DOES NOT save anyone.

  50. ~gail says:

    I have read through this entire post today. I see that this discussion has been going on for three days and am feeling weary for Kelly. Just as an encouragement to you Kelly I want to thank you for being steadfast in defending the Word of God, upholding Scripture and warning us of the ungodly institution called the public school system.

    I just wanted to add two things that I didn’t see shared. “In not mentioning God, my public school teachers preached a thundering message daily. By implication they taught that God is not relevant to most areas of life…with every lesson, in every class period, all day every day for 12 years I was being taught to think like an atheist in the academic realm and didn’t even know that I was being indoctrinated.” – Chris Schlect, Scriptural Worldview Thinking

    Also, the public school system has an agenda. Intentionally not mentioning God in order to indoctrinate the minds of the little children was an idea by Karl Marx, a German philosopher who lived about the same time as Abraham Lincoln. The following is text from “So Much More” by the Botkins. Please excuse the quoted punctuation as I was in a hurry typing and paid no attention to quotes within quotes for your English sticklers out there. 🙂

    “He was a Satanist whose objective in life, in his own word, was “to dethrone God and destroy capitalism.” Marx became significant when his group of brilliant, devoted followers stumbled onto a formula for his cultural revolution that would sweep the globe.

    In the early 20’s, a group of his followers launched a project that continues to weaken and bury the last remnants of Christianity. the Frankfurt School was organized in 1923 by dedicated Marxists who were determined to win a war they called “The Revolution”. By this, they ment the non-violent overthrow of every nation in the name of communism. Russia was the first nation to fall, in 1917. It fell violently. The next two targeted nations were resistant, and this wasn’t expected. When communist agents met to identify the problem, they found they were in complete agreement. The problem was Christianity. They said the revolution would be stalled until Christianity was destroyed, not by guns, but by an alternative theology. they concluded that once a nation was socialized with this new theology, the revolution would proceed smoothly and without resistance. Christendom would be dead, and international communism would be the dominant religion of all nations.

    The Frankfort School was set up as a think tank in Frankfort, Germany to develop and teach this new theology as a clever ‘social science.’ They dressed it up as behavioral psychology and used ingenious methods of public relations to get the new ideas into every school, every movie studio, and every university in the West.

    Their non-violent approach was simple. They identified each main element of biblical Christianity and then invented its opposite. They preached a strategy called “the great inversion” which was nothing more than the replacement of truth with error, then making error “politically correct.”

    Basically, their objective was to turn God’s order on its head. Thus, if the Bible taught a family-based education model, they insisted on forced state schooling (with a curriculum of their own design). If the Bible taught male leadership, they insisted on forced cultural changes to place women over men in every area of society. If the Bible instituted marriage, they insisted on its removal. If the Bible placed high value on children, they insisted on developing a culture of widespread abortion and birth control practices. If the Bible labeled evil as wrong, they defined it as right. Antonio Gramsci was a Frankfurt School collegue who explained this process in detail: “The civilized world has been saturated with Christianity for 2000 years, Gramsci wrote, reasoning that a culture rooted in Christian worldview and practices could only be captured from within by Marxising the inner man…to alter the Christian mind to turn it into its opposite in all its details so that it would become not merely a non-Christian mind but an anti-Christian mind—a slow march throughout the culture–adestroying of the civilization from within–everything must be done in the name of man’s dignity and rights and in the name of his autonomy and freedom from outside restraint. From the claims and constraints of Christianity above all.”

  51. Kim says:

    Kelly,

    Anyone with half a brain can see that for decades the schools in America have been falling farther and farther away from God. If it wasn’t true we would have seen great masses returning to God because of all the parents who are putting their Christian kids in public school to evangelize it, but all we see are Christian children following the crowd with very little change in their peers or teachers. Children were never sent out to evangelize in the Bible, only adults.

    Why is it so easy for us as Christians to give up what God has instructed us to do, while the rest of the world fights so hard to change us, with no apologies?!

  52. Amber says:

    I very much enjoyed this article and the debates along the way! I also am blessed with and suffer from this gift of “prophesy”. It was SO refreshing to hear your explanation of it, and feel right at home, ha ha! I am also up late and can’t give up, and it is a burden, but it’s so wonderful knowing where I stand and standing strongly there. I also annoy people (sometimes via you 😉 ). Thank you for being a wise inspiration to me!!

  53. Ponder Woman says:

    I have been a long time reader of Miss Kelly’s blog here and as one that does not necessarily believe the exact same way that she does it has always greatly puzzled me as to how anyone ‘feels judged’ by what she speaks about.

    I really enjoy reading the opinions and thoughts from all the different angles that are posted in the comments because sometimes there are viewpoints that I haven’t considered and it gives me some more fodder for pondering the issue at hand. But the bottom line for me has always been this: If I read something here that I am wrestling with and I do not have a conviction from God one way or the other I feel compelled to go to the Bible. I have not yet felt judged here. By saying that I am in no way speaking against the character of a anyone here that has spoken of feeling judged, I’m only saying that I have no idea how you come to feeling that way since even on issues that Miss Kelly speaks on that I still do not have a God-viction of in the direction that she does and advocates, I feel no judgement or condemnation at all; only a call to take it up with God. That is all. 🙂

  54. Marissa Hoover says:

    I would like to point out, that I am a strong Christian woman, who has made a point of sending her children to public schools, for the same purpose that I was sent to public schools. It’s a sneaky reason, are you ready, “Missions Work.” That’s right. My parents raised me with my Christian world view intact. I love homeschoolers and home schooling parents… but I also love little tiny baby missionaries.

    As, a small child when a false world view or a scientific “fact” was presented, my parents corrected it. It is their job to. However, if you don’t know the fake, you can’t refute it. As a teenager, I ran Club Crossroads, a Christian club inside my high school. Five days a week I read my Bible in study hall, and prepared my “message” for Wednesdays. I had the opportunity to talk to a lot of people, who for socio-economic reasons most other children ignored, about Jesus. They were asking, hungry, and willing to listen. I got to work along side Jesus, in my public school, as a missionary! I feel so blessed to have had that opportunity.

    I then went to a Christian college. And, while the college did an excellent job of teaching about Christian world view, and did incredible Bible surveys, and wonderful in-depth student and faculty led Bible studies, my skills in witnessing and for being able to stand up for what I believed in, were not tested there… and they atrophied. It took many, many years of being “under-fire” so to speak, in the “non-Christian bubble” that was the working world, to re-refine my skills… my courage… and my boldness. I still sometimes struggle with a bit of fear, that I never felt before the “Christian bubble” that I put myself in for four years.

    I am not saying it would be easy to ensure that your Christian child got all of the correct world-view teaching… but it’s not easy to home school either. And, I wonder how many of the home schooled children, when faced with a job, which will probably be in the secular, worldly arena that most jobs exist in (from burger flipper, to plumber, to doctor, lawyer, teacher) will be able to stand up for what’s right, having not had years and years of practice. I know that they’ll all know the right answers. I know that they, like I, will have had God’s words written on their hearts, but will they have the mettle to say, in a loving, “honey catches more flies than vinegar” but still without compromise way, The Truth? It is just something to think about. I am a proud interloper. I will spread my Christian values and my love in every secular situation… from my high school, to my job, to the kids’ soccer matches. I’ve had years of practice, and have helped lead many to Christ.

    • MelissaJoy says:

      R.C. Sproul addresses the “missionaries at school” comment well in his book “When You Rise Up”. I recommend it.

    • Word Warrior says:

      Marissa,

      I’m so thankful the Lord preserved you, despite your being immersed “in the counsel of the ungodly”.

      I think the argument of “sending our children to school as missionaries” is the poorest one of all. Here’s why:

      #1. Parents aren’t commanded to send their children out. Anywhere. They are commanded to walk beside them–discipling them as they go, yes, pointing out the “false worldviews” which requires them to be there. Just as Jesus did before he sent his disciples out on their own.

      #2. Parents ARE commanded to flee from the “counsel of the ungodly”. How much more, then, their children.

      #3. Being missionaries to the lost is COMPLETELY different than submitting to the authority, teaching, counsel and wisdom of the lost. You don’t send your child to school to “teach as Jesus taught”. When you send them, you voluntarily place them under the authority of those who are teaching a false religion. You inadvertently say, “these are your masters. Listen to them, learn from them, trust them”. And because this authority is blatantly in opposition to God and his law, we cannot obey the command to teach them “in the admonition of the Lord” while simultaneously letting someone teach them what is opposite to His law.

      Our thoughts, opinions and experiences on this are null and void in light of Scripture.

  55. Marissa Hoover says:

    Oh, and if you think a little child cannot be a missionary, Jesus was a child when he “schooled” the pharasees… aprox. 12. And, there is that verse that says, “and a little child shall lead them.” I know who it’s talking about, but I think other “little children” can do a good job too. Jesus had a very tender spot for children, allowing them to “come to Him.” My kiddos, “go to Him, and then take Him to others in a very natural way.”

    • Word Warrior says:

      There again…Jesus was the sinless Son of God. He also was the one doing the teaching. We don’t find Mary and Joseph enrolling Jesus into the “school of pagans” to be trained there. Jesus was teaching, they were listening. He was not placed under the authority and counsel of the false religion of the day. Such a huge difference it’s difficult to see how the comparison could be made.

  56. Marlene Gilkerson says:

    Kelly –

    As I go through some of these comments I am sad because I see so much pride and hurtful things protrayed in both parties. As I hope and assume most of these women love God and want to obey Him I think all of us can get stuck on an idea and give no one mercy and grace on God’s own leading in their lives.

    “The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice.” Pvbs. 12:15
    “A proud and haughty man “Scoffer” is his name; He acts with arrogant pride. Pvbs. 21:24

    I am in the process of seeking mercy and grace in my own life now and to love someone even when they seem so unlovable. You see I have been married for 5 1/2 years to a man that has been very unlovable alot of times. I will not go into detail. Right now he is in the mental hospital having a very severe manic episode and this is not his first he had two severe ones last year (he was diagnosed as bi-polar). If you have never seen or talked to someone like that it is a very scary, overwhelming and stressful thing especially when they are like that. Now to say this I was the type of person that never really believed in mental illness and was the type of person if someone asked me about it I would just say it didn’t exist and it was all in the persons mind that it existed until it happened to my own husband. To make this short I have two little kids, I have no job, my husband owns his own business so he has debt with that, he has credit card debt (thousands of dollars), he was going to take out a loan for a $30,000 trailor that I have no idea where the papers are for and we are supposed to start paying for it in the fall, and we have no mental health insurance. We are legally separating partially because he is NOT safe, he will have to be hospitalized for months and because he needs to learn the consequences of his decisions even though he was manic. In no way am I saying this to have anyone feel sorry for me, but I feel that as Christians we give absolutely no grace and mercy to those who have differant situations or leading of the Holy Spirit. Right now if my kids were of school age and one will be next year there would be no way I could homeschool or have the money for Christian school. Does that mean I am a sinning? I do not think so. So as a Christian and love for other Christians I say this one piece of advice have some grace.

    • Word Warrior says:

      Marlene,

      I agree with you. No matter how strong our convictions and what we feel compelled to say, we must strain to speak the truth in love. But I want to be clear that changing what I believe is truth is not synonymous with love. I had mentioned before (can’t remember if it was this post or not), that I do believe there can be supernatural provisions for people in hard, hard places, like yourself. I am so sorry, too for your tremendous journey. The grief you are feeling must be so heavy.

      What I mean is, I am often challenged, if I raise some “standard” or ideal that the ideal can’t be right since there are hard situations that would make it impossible. If I say, for instance, that I think biblically-speaking a wife is to love her husband unconditionally and not divorce him, there are no doubt women who feel “judged” because their husbands abuse them. I am speaking to a majority, making a general statement of what is right and good. The truth I’m asserting is truth for all, but of course there are always “broken exceptions” that must be dealt with carefully or maybe differently.

      Hope that made sense.

    • Cathy says:

      Marlene,

      I am sorry that you felt less than encouraged by all the posts. Honestly, I was miffed w/Kelly, but in no way would I want to damage a sister in Christ (or anyone for that matter).

      I am a reader who doesn’t agree that it is sin to send your kids to public schools, and I was/am vociferous about it. I’m sorry, though, that it may have been hurtful to you.

      My sis was diagnosed as being bi-polar. Her bouts (breakdowns) were almost always precipitated by worry, which would cause sleep deprivation, and it would continue to snowball until it was out of control. She was hospitalized several times, and had to go on lithium. Like you, I didn’t know what to think (e.g., is mental illness real…and I had many of the same thoughts as you did), and I do wonder if there are spiritual issues, as well…like unresolved anger which can definitely create havoc in one’s life, but all that is irrelevant when you see someone going through those ugly episodes…think walking around the streets in pajamas, thinking that people are throwing a monster party for you when you see a crowd…delusional, grandiose rantings, etc. Not to mention ugly, vicious verbal attacks. It was frightening–and real.

      I will pray for your rest and some sense of sanity to be restored in your life.

      Forgive me if I added to your pain.

      Cathy

    • Ponder Woman says:

      Hi Marlene,

      I’m not speaking to you in the context of schooling choices at all here; I simply wanted to let you know that I understand many of the emotions you are going through from personal experience. I hope that you have a strong church family to walk this road with you. You will be in my prayers.

    • MelissaJoy says:

      Hi Marlene,
      As the daughter of a severely bipolar father, I just want to encourage you! Though I am not married to a bipolar man to be able to give marriage encouragement from one who’s “been there”, from a daughter’s perspective, I hope it is of some comfort to you to know that the grace and mercy of the Lord is present and sufficient in all circumstances!

      Looking back on my life I felt the hand of God through every “very unloving” situation, which I prefer not to discuss on an open forum. My father also had his own business, which was run by just us as a family. My parents “homeschooled” us four children, of which I’m number 3. I put homeschooled in quotes because as I have said in my earlier post, from the government-school perspective I was an academic failure. The goal wasn’t to “school” us so much as it was to raise us as best as possible to make it through the difficult times alive and still united as a family (remember, my dad is severely bipolar), and my mother anyway knew that with everything going on, we needed to be close to her as much as possible. The entire time while growing up I was so thankful to be spared from the public, and even private, school environments. The majority of my friends were in government schools, and I daily thanked the Lord for sparing me of all they were forced to deal with and be exposed to day in and day out, on top of everything at home. I knew I couldn’t handle any more, and God spared us of more than we could handle through homeschool.

      Text is so difficult, because no matter in what heart something is written, we always read it more negatively… I believe that’s due to The Fall. I wish you could see my heart, and I know Miss Kelly feels the same way about her own heart. I want you to know that I can *completely* see and understand where and why and how these posts, even the most loving ones, can pierce the heart as snide, unloving, hateful, and “judgmental”. But, that doesn’t mean that they are. I would have to stop talking altogether to be able to please people and show them I love, but even then I would be misunderstood for my silence! Alas there is not up to one person alone… we need to work *together*. So I say with all of the love and tenderness in my heart, please *listen* lovingly. Please listen for God’s voice in it all. I’m not saying listen blindly to other people, but please be open to the seemingly unlikely places through which God may speak to you, possibly about your own fears and lack of faith. I do not say “lack of faith” in a condescending way AT ALL! I want to make that *very clear* right now!

      In my humble heart, which can always use much more humility, I do not think it would be loving for a person to say “honey, I see how hard you have it, God will certainly not count what you are doing to be sinful since you are doing it to save your family.” That’s the lie from The Garden. Please don’t let it enter your heart and mind without taking it captive and making it obedient to Christ! It’s the lie that has us in a world of “no absolutes”. It’s the lie that is at the heart of the girl who gets an abortion, or the stripper who can’t find another way to pay for her children’s food.

      I do not like confrontation, and I absolutely do not like it when people are unhappy (especially with me!). I worry so very much about the possibilities (which are great) of being wrong… but deep down there is a pebble of peace, which surpasses all understanding, letting me know that it is fighting the good fight to say that government schools are no place for our children.

      I could go on, as there’s so much more to be said and so much more to help understand where I’m coming from and where I’m going. E-mail would probably be a better place for that.

      I have one story, I do want to share (as briefly as I can)…

      In June of 2009, my husband’s company was going through bankruptcy and massive cutbacks. My husband has his career through years of field experience, a bachelor’s degree, and a very difficult-to-pass state license. He was one of the most unlikely people to be let go. One Thursday morning, he received his pink slip. I called my previous employer (a law firm) and told them our situation and asked for my previous job back. They let me know that not only could I have my full-time job back, but that they wanted to promote me from administrative assistant to lawyer A’s legal assistant with a double in pay (I would end up making a little more than my husband). Now my daughter was 4 months old, my husband had been given his notice not to return to work the next day, we had a mortgage payment and other debts, and I faced completely swapping roles with my husband.

      Now, the thought occurred to us that this opportunity could be God’s providence. But I felt absolutely sick to my stomach about how upside down our lives would become by accepting these circumstances in this way. We prayed often, long and hard over it all and decided not to do anything differently. We still believed that there are specific roles and that God will provide if we continue to do what He says is right and trust Him to provide accordingly. My husband would do any kind of work he could to support us and pay our regular debt payments—make firewood, sell produce, handyman work, anything! We determined that the job offer for me was not providence, but temptation, and that we would not be accepting it. After all that, my husband went to work Friday as usual and was told they’d give him one more day… then the weekend rolled by and he went to work on Monday. He never lost one day of work due to the company to this day. In fact, he is currently in limbo of being promoted to the second highest position at the new company (bankruptcy resulted in someone else purchasing the company).

      This is not a boast of myself, my family, or where we are at. If you take it that way, I am very sorry that is in your heart. I am stating my own experiences with God’s faithfulness!!

      He will provide for you Marlene. I don’t know what it looks like, and I don’t know the specifics He has for your life. I want to encourage you to be careful of the lies, because they are tempting and plentiful! I will write down your name and pray for you over the next 30 days.

      In love,
      Melissa

  57. MamaMandy says:

    Thanks for this interesting post. I was homeschooled to 5th grade & then my Mom decided to let me attend public school. My relationship with Jesus did suffer but my strong personality & dedication to God kept peer pressure at bay mostly. It is difficult to memorize facts for tests & then toss the information because I disagree with it…just tough mentally, but also wastes the time I could be learning about something I’m interested in that I don’t inherently disagree with.
    My main reason for homeschooling our kiddos is to teach them that God created the world & everything is in His hands, but beyond that, I want them to learn what they are interested in so I don’t waste these early years when their minds are so open to learning. Why send them to public school to learn things that may or may not bore them {so everyone else “gets it”}, that also may be contradictory to scripture?
    I don’t hate public school…I am an ECE teacher, but while teaching I noticed that the bad behavior is usually what transmits to other students unless the teacher is totally on top of everything & can stay at the forefront of the influencers. Most teachers can’t. That’s just the truth. When kids are packed into a classroom, 24 {or more} to 1, the odds are not that great. Send your kids to public school, but don’t expect high quality or few negative influences…God can be glorified in the darkest of places, but why test it, imo? And, I know many homeschooling mamas with no formal education who are doing a great job schooling their kiddos…as good as a teacher with 24 or more students could do, imo.
    Just random thoughts…Thanks again for your reminder that humanism is the main threat to Christianity in the world.

  58. Jane says:

    I don’t have a comment, except to agree with Kelly’s stance, but here is an interesting quote I found:

    “I am afraid that the schools will prove the very gates of hell, unless they diligently labor in explaining the Holy Scriptures and engraving them in the heart of the youth.” -Martin Luther

    • LVH says:

      Ah Martin Luther……..

      Here’s what he said about Jews:

      “My advice, as I said earlier, is: First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire…Second, that all their books– their prayer books, their Talmudic writings, also the entire Bible– be taken from them, not leaving them one leaf, and that these be preserved for those who may be converted…Third, that they be forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country…Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of God within our hearing. For we cannot with a good conscience listen to this or tolerate it…The rulers must act like a good physician who, when gangrene has set in proceeds without mercy to cut, saw, and burn flesh, veins, bone, and marrow. Such a procedure must also be followed in this instance. Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal harshly with them. If this does not help we must drive them out like mad dogs.” —-“On Jews and their Lies”

      I should come up with a website that lists quotes from various Christian leaders who were very anti-Semitic as “proof” that there is a current Christian “agenda” to get rid of Jews everywhere!

      • 6 arrows says:

        Which is why only Scripture can be relied on as the one Source of absolute Truth. Fallible man can be right on some things and wrong on others, but the Holy Scriptures are the unchanging and inerrant Word of God.

        • LVH says:

          Ah, you are partly right 6 arrows. 🙂

          There is one truth but whose “fallible” interpretation should we follow? Catholic? Lutheran? Evangelical? Baptist? Calvin? Methodist? Kelly’s?

          Kelly’s interpretation suggests that Christians should not send their kids to public school. I do not follow her interpretation of Scripture. 🙂

          • Word Warrior says:

            LVH–we do not have to choose an “interpretation”. I have used the Scriptures alone, not my interpretation, as a means of defining what is acceptable “counsel” in the life of a believer and his children. It is when, in light of the infallible Word, we are able to interpret around it that we tread on dangerous ground.

            • 6 arrows says:

              Well said, Kelly. Much more concise than my long-winded thing below! 🙂

            • LVH says:

              Scripture is not plainly written. When we read Scripture, we think about what is written, what language it was written in, the time period of which it was written in, what words are used and what those words mean. What is the meaning of each passage and what was the author trying to convey? That is interpretation.

              So when you post a scripture verse that states that “we must not walk in the council of the ungodly.” You are interpreting and/or defining as public schools falling into that category. That is your interpretation of that scripture. I interpret that scripture to mean that I should not allow my kids to be taught scripture or religious teachings from false religious leaders. That is my interpretation. So we’ve taken a passage and have come to different “interpretations” of that passage.

              This is one of the many reasons why Christians are divided into so many sects. Catholics take the verse of “You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church” and interpret it to mean that Peter was the first (in a long lineage) of Popes who hold authority in the Catholic faith. I’m guessing you’re not Catholic, so I’m sure that you reject the Catholic interpretation of that Scripture verse; let alone many scriptural defenses that Catholics use to support things like Confession and Infant baptism.

              The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not explicitly mentioned anywhere in the Bible and it took more than a hundred years and various councils convening for it to be formally established in Christendom. How many people would come up with this doctrine by themselves if just handed a Bible and asked to read it? Not many, I bet.

              You say you’re using scriptures alone, but that is false.

              • Word Warrior says:

                I fully understand the differences of interpretation and the way they divide. My point for this argument was precisely what you said. I take the verse you mentioned and think it’s pretty straightforward. Your problem with it is not my interpretation with the verse; it’s your willingness to admit what the school system teaches and your understanding of what is the “counsel of the ungodly”. “Counsel of the ungodly” is not difficult. A child could interpret it…”anything counsel that is ‘not godly’ “. So if an institution teaches, it counsels, no? And if it counsels from a position that denies God, it cannot be “godly” which makes it “ungodly”. I really can’t believe I’m having this conversation. But you press me into this over-simplified explanation.

                Is it that you just will not admit that “he who is not for Me is against me”? Or is it that the sacred cow of public education makes it impossible for you to change your position? Do you truly that education can be neutral, without a worldview? I’m truly just asking.

                • LVH says:

                  You’re trying to put “teach” and “counsel” in the exact same category, when in fact it can be more of a Venn Diagram at times. I send my child to school to be taught Math, History, Science, Music, Art…ect. It does not matter to me if an Atheist is teaching her or a Muslim or a Jew. I have no prejudice at all. I take them to church or conduct Bible Study for biblical instruction or counsel.

                  So Kelly, let’s expand your train of thought..your logic..your interpretation of Scripture. Shouldn’t you be discouraging Christians from attending medical schools, nursing schools, midwifery schools, law schools, accounting–basically any public institution of higher learning? Shouldn’t you be discouraging Christian men from becoming firefighters or police officers or EMTs? Does not their education come from the “ungodly.” The biblical verse of “walk not in the counsel of the ungodly” does not just apply to children.. What does that look like for adults? What are adults supposed to do when they work for managers or supervisors who are not Christian? Should they deny any type of teaching from them?

                  Public schools do not teach from an agenda that denies God. They teach from a standpoint that religious studies do not have a place in the classroom. I’m glad that public schools do not teach explicitly from a “Christian” point of view. Just because one labels their education as Christian does not mean that it is truth. I’ve had the pleasure of reviewing Christian curriculum and have been blown away from, what seems like, a deliberate attempt to twist facts and proclaim falsehoods.

                  Yes, Jesus said ““he who is not for Me is against me.” However, I do not interpret in the black/white context that you do; no matter how straightforward you think it may be. You know he also said that if a man commits sin with his right eye, that he must pluck it out? Isn’t that pretty clear and straightforward? How many Christians are doing that. 😉

                  Love the subtle insult of suggesting that I view public education as a sacred cow! 😛

                  I’ve mentioned before that the sources you originally used have proclaimed falsehoods. I believe one or two of your sources didn’t even cite their resources; which is a huge red flag and you lost quite a bit of credibility with me. I’ve pointed out your logical fallacies. I’m not convinced by your use/interpretation of Scripture. The reality is that I am not persuaded by, what I consider, to be a very weak defense.

                  • Word Warrior says:

                    The very first and most important thing…I did not intend to “insult” you at all. I used that term as the only one I can think of to describe how tightly we hold to this institution in the light of so many obvious problems. I apologize if I insulted you.

                    Thank you for explaining a bit more, how you see the paradigm of education. That helps me to at least understand the disagreement a bit more clearly.

                    You asked if adults shouldn’t reject any kind of teaching that isn’t explicitly Christian, based on my interpretation of Psalm 1. First, it should be noted that Psalm 1 is just one of the many verses I’ve used to support my point (included for anyone reading who may not have followed every comment). And before that is even considered, it should be clear that a child in his formative years has been given the direct command to be “raised in the nurture and admonition of the Lord” so that “when he is old he will not depart from it”. So a distinction is made in that regard. The “counsel of the ungodly”, as Gill’s commentary puts it:

                    “He does not take counsel of them as to the way in which he should live, but from the law of the Lord…”

                    Education administered by the state to a person eight hours a day is an imparting of “the way he should live”. Teaching in morality, character development and worldview are all present. This varies significantly from taking a specialized course in a subject. Albeit, even in the case of adults, any teaching from a Christian perspective is to be preferred. But “walking in the counsel” is a picture of living, day in and day out, learning “how to live”, receiving instruction about all of life, how to think and how to see the world. I do not see an inconsistency.

                    You said, “Public schools do not teach from an agenda that denies God. They teach from a standpoint that religious studies do not have a place in the classroom.” I simply disagree. I think (and I’m not the only one) it’s impossible to teach a whole education without “religion”. The religion of the state is that of humanism, as I’ve said many times before. This isn’t my opinion but is even stated in many of the educational proponents’ own writing.

                    I understand now, that you won’t be persuaded, short of the Holy Spirit. And I do pray for that! I appreciate your careful explanations and I pray you’ll consider mine.

                    And regarding the fallacy of my quotes…why will no one reply to what has been said, undeniably, about humanism and the classroom? Why are WE so adamant about opposing the idea that humanism is taught in the classroom, but *they* aren’t? I would love to know what effect, if any, quotes like the following have on your stance…

                    “Education is a most powerful ally of Humanism & every American school is a school of Humanism. What can the theistic Sunday schools, meeting for an hour once a week, & teaching only a fraction of the children do to stem the tide of a five-day program of Humanistic religion teaching? So very Humanistic is modern education that no religion has a future unless it be Humanism. The religion of tomorrow in America & all the world may not be in all respects identical with the religious Humanism we are advocating in this book, but it will be mightily like it & of the same spirit.” C.F. Potter

          • 6 arrows says:

            LVH,

            You are right that there is one truth. Jesus said in John 14:6 “…I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

            Following Jesus and following “religion” aren’t the same thing. So when you ask, “whose “fallible” interpretation should we follow? Catholic? Lutheran? Evangelical?…” etc., my answer is “None of them.” Those are religions; Jesus is Jesus. Religion doesn’t save; Jesus does.

            That’s not to say we can’t be members of a certain church body (we’re not to forsake assembling together with other believers; Hebrews 10:25), or read what other Christians have to say about the Word of God. However, we as Christians are exhorted to search the scriptures daily to see whether the things we are being taught are true (Acts 17:11).

            Immersion in the Word is a must, or we can be so easily deceived whenever falsehood enters into the teaching we are receiving, whether that be as we sit under the feet of religious leaders, leaders in the public arena, or anywhere else. We need churches that encourage their members to be in the Word, examining what they’re learning, including the church’s own teachings.

            And if we can be deceived (and we must never think that we can’t), then how easily can our children fall prey to deception also when sitting under teaching based on false premises without strong prior grounding in a thoroughly biblical worldview. Very sobering to think about these things.

            But what a blessing to think on Philippians 4:8, for us and our children: “Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.”

            We each must be exposed to and immersed in truth, purity, virtue, praiseworthy things, and so on, to recognize things that do not possess those qualities, and respond accordingly. “Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.” 2 Corinthians 10:5.

  59. Sue M. says:

    If faced with the decision of public school, Christian school, or homeschooling, my husband and decided that we wouldn’t use a “one-size fits all” approach. We would prayerfully consider what the public schools were like where we were living, what options for Christian schooling were available, and whether homeschooling was a viable option. Where to educate each child would also depend on his or her temperament and needs and what environment would best fit that that child.

    Right now, our local public school system is excellent and positive character traits such as honesty, loyalty, and compassion for others are built into the curriculum, starting with kindergarten. No, that’s not Bible study, but these are values consistent with Christian ethics.

    Talking about options for Christian schooling would obviously depend on distance from home, the school’s curriculum, denominational distinctives, and how Christian it really was. For example, my denomination (Anglican) believes that the two major sacraments (not ordinances) are baptism (of infants) and Holy Communion are for everyone and that there are five other sacraments that may or may not apply to all people — like marriage. While we have nothing against Baptists, for example, because of these differences, we’d probably feel uncomfortable sending our children to a Baptist school.

    WRT to homeschooling, that would depend on whether there was a critical mass of homeschoolers in the area, whether we could give up what would be my part-time income after having children, and just how suited we were for this challenging task.

    If anyone is still following this thread, personally I prefer a public school to teach a good solid curriculum interlaced with teaching positive characters and allow optional religious education after school (not just Christian) in large RV’s or mobile homes just off school grounds. I know a number of school districts allow this and it is perfectly legal.

    Finally, if we had a Christian curriculum in the public schools, how could all the Christian denominations agree on a common curriculum? Would it be a Roman Catholic, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, Free Methodist, Church of God, Presbyterian, Assembly of God, non-denominational, Church of Christ, African Methodist Episcopal, etc. And since we don’t have a Christian theocracy, we would have to accommodate at least other religions in the school district (yuk!, except Jewish).

    Don’t know about the rest of you, but I have enjoyed the exchange of ideas here and may the Holy Spirit guide you in choosing the best educational choices for your children.

  60. April says:

    Hello! Your articles are so inspiring and I feel on the same page! My husband is saved and that is about it. He is not reading the Bible, he doesn’t pray at least not around me or the children, and he is against homeschooling and mostly for public schooling and kinda open to christian private school. We are married parents to a 2.5yr and 4.5yr boys. In August our soon to be 5 yr old starts Kinder. I am dreading placing him in public. I don’t know what to do because I personally can not afford private and my husband is the main income. He does not want to pay a penny in education unless public. I’ve prayed, I’ve cried, I’ve kinda thrown my hands up now and leaving it to God…I worry though. I want to homeschool. I feel God’s given me what I need for our children to do it. I am also taking CDA classes in may in college. What can I do when my husband isn’t a growing Christian, we are on two different pages in most things that are huge because He’s not where he needs to be with God and I am finally in the strongest part of my faith to be bold and seek God in everything this past two years. What does a mom do when her husband doesn’t want to put the kids anywhere but public system? Can God change his heart, can he make the money possible? My parents have offered to pay but I feel a little wrong to accept, my mother has lupus and many dr apointments meducations etc. My father is just building them out dept and needs to d some things to their house necessary. I am at a fork in the road and feel it’s beyond me to place them in homeschool or even private.

    • Word Warrior says:

      April,

      I feel so much for you and I want to offer you a couple of things. First, YES, absolutely God can change his heart. I’ve seen him do it. As far as your part with that goes, I would gently encourage him by reminding him why you feel this is important and asking if he is willing to read some statistics/info from someone else. Many times, with homeschooling especially, if a person isn’t really familiar with its popularity and success, it can be difficult to be convinced by one person. Is he open to considering? Reading? Without pressure, just open to the idea?

      Secondly, having seen some personal situations like yours, I would encourage you, as HARD as it would be, to “stay on the same page” with your husband in spirit and love. For your children, that is FAR more important than a divided, unstable home life. I’ve just recently been more strongly convinced of this point, and believe that a husband and wife who can stand together can trump a lot of other things that aren’t “quite right”.

  61. April says:

    Medications*

  62. April says:

    Thank you so much for your quick reply! My husband isn’t much of a reader, he’s not open right now to reading articles or meeting with others. He is open to looking into the Private Christian academy I found local to us. He is completely against homeschooling, but has little information to base it on just assumptions/media/ society assumptions. I am taking one year at a time, so right now I’ve talked to him about just Kindergarten since our oldest is starting school August. The private school I’m looking into enrollment enrolls quick and is in March. So I do feel some pressure if I can not go into homeschooling that the closest to biblical education for our children would be private school, and time will come around the corner first. So although months ahead till August, this is why I am set on it now. My heart is just completely for keeper of the home, family, home education. I wasn’t like this when my husband and I met, I was living in the world and was like the son who ran away from his father. My husband has noticed some huge changes in me and in my outlook on many things. He sometimes jokes I am like ” an old lady “. I take into consideration the family life he had, he grew up in a divorced home with parents who dated and remarried several times. He wasn’t raised on the bible. I have to consider how much I’ve changed since we first got married in 2009. I can understand how it can be overwhelming and uncomfrotable for my husband when I was all for public school and now am all for homeschool. I was homeschooled for high school and hated it, and told my husband and said I’d never homeschool. So this year when I started discussing kindergarten homeschooling and wanting to continue homeschooling, I think it was overwhelming for him. I’ve shown him things or read things to him, I bring up scripture , but it’s hard. God has recently shown me the importance of keeping our marriage on the same page than our differences in educating our children. One difference I noticed in my husband after marrying was our thinking on roles of wife and husband. This includes for years he wanted me to work and put our kids in day care. That is when I started doing in home-based child care and preschooling, and during financial times had to work in day care with our children there. In time I found I have a heart for teaching and much stronger than I knew. I have such a heart for being the keeper of our family and home, for family home education and biblical education. Being a only child and no small children in the family, I can only see this as being something God placed in my heart. I have had college loans that the last year my father is helping pay for because I am a sahm. The past few months I’ve seen God change my husbands heart from not wanting or willing to help pay for my loans ( when you marry your debpts become eachothers ). I’ve had to go through financial times and moves because of my husbands financial choices or debt. I never understood why he didn’t want to or see why he should help with mine. Money has always been the only thing we use differently. In time we have come to a point where we are more on the same page in our finances and TOGETHER being a huge part where I saw God change my husbands heart. So where does this play a part in our childrens education? Well, my husband does not want to put money into education ( homeschool or private ). This plays a crucial reason to why he’s closed to it or at times has got upset and walked away. Communication with this is hard to do, and I’ve seen that having others he is more open to listening to. It doesn’t help having public schooling family and teachers in the family as influences though to be brief. So right now I am standing on respecting my husband and his feelings, trusting God wherever we may go with this, hope and faith that he will change his heart and understand homeschooling as it really can be and my heart/ God’s heart. When I asked my husband why not homeschool I was given three reasons, 1.) social skills concern 2.) financial 3.) that I may not continue liking it or my ability/want to do it long term

    I’ve tried speaking to my husband about these, showing him ways they will socialize, the importance of family, things our money doesn’t have to go into that can go into their education instead, ways I a and will save money for homeschool or private, the offer my parents have made to help and financially help with homeschool or private school, and I know he’s seeing my passion. I even bought Abeka Kindergarten curriculum to start with my son because he’s ready and while doing this for my son, and home educating them since day 1…I know my husband sees and will see more of what I’m capable of and how happy the boys are. This is hard to explain and somewhat private as I know you understand, but being on different spiritual and in many ways life style pages….showing my husband this is God’s will is just not going to be something He’d understand. So it’s more so the academic side of it I am leaning on when he’s open to talking about it ( usually in small segments ). Am I impatient, I’m human and a little type a personality so yes I am sometimes impatient and just want to make it happen. But lately God has shown me the importance of my husband and I being on the same page despite our differences especially in educating the children. I am praying about this, for my husband’s spiritual and relationship with God to grow, for His eyes to be open to the truths of public education and other things of the world he doesn’t think is harmful ( tv being one ). It’s very hard for me without coming across as religious nut or selfish, because he is on a different page in some things. ( I’m 26 he’s 28 & again when we married I was trying to walk in the world and with the lord ) Today I am a different person,and some things come up we disagree on because we are at different walks with God and our view of the world and things of it. My mom is a strong support and person I can go to for advise and counseling. I am so thankful o have her! But I am also an adult and my mother is dealing with symptoms of lupus and test and medications…that often she is too ill to talk or come over or have the kids around her. I am just getting more involved in our church again and making new God given friendships. It’s things like your blog that inspires me greatly to be patient, to pray, to be understanding and compassionate and not fall into my flesh with my husband, to have faith his heart can change. I know these are the early years of our children’s life and although perhaps one of the most important in their development, faith and character…I know i have to trust GOD in ALL THINGS even this circumstance. But I do need all the support I can get.

    • Dawn says:

      To April, above, I would strongly urge you to consider the information you have posted about your husband on a public website. How would he feel about it? Have you ever heard of the book “Created to be his helpmeet” by Debi pearl? It is a great read and was a real eye opener for me. I highly recommend it to.you. Also, for now I would drop homeschooling completely around your husband. The more you bring it up, the more likely he will not want to hear about it. Honor.him and take it quietly to prayer for a time. Seriously though, read the books it’s great! It changed my marriage. The schooling you choose is between you, your husband and the Lord, don’t let a post like this cause you to.stumble. While the owner of this blog is likely a wonderful Christian who loves God, it is your husband who has headship over you, not any other person on this earth.

  63. April says:

    I am asking you and all who read this who support this, to continue to pray for the family and I, for my husbands relationship with God, for my husband to see the truth of this world, for strength, hearing God’s voice in this and wisdom. Thank you!

    • 6 arrows says:

      I’m praying for you, April. I will get back to you with resources and links. There are lots of free things online that are well-suited to educating one’s children.

      Blessings to you.

  64. April says:

    Thank you for any resources or links that I can use or to show to my husband. April

  65. Dawn says:

    It saddens me to see how much time has been taken on this page for women to argue and put each other down. The condescending “I’m nottrying to judge” type disclaimers aren’t really doing anything to hide the judgments being.hurled at one another. As a new Christian, it’s stuff like this that makes me wary to.join womens ministries. I guess I want to believe there are loving, Godly women out there but it seems that the most outspoken ladies are just the opposite of that. Thank goodness I’m secure in my live for Christ and don’t let others turn me away from salvation with all this ugliness.

  66. Dawn says:

    Unfortunately, countless would be Christians are driven away from the church daily due to things like this. Please pray and consider how your judgment of someone else may be affecting your witness. This whole thing saddens me terribly.

  67. Lisa E. says:

    kelly,

    thank you for this post and for being bold. i’m sure that once the public school system starts forcing our daughters and sons to start SHOWERING WITH MEMBERS OF THE OPPOSITE SEX AND USING THE SAME BATHROOMS, then people will wake up and see some light! oh, wait a minute…

    http://news.yahoo.com/calif-governor-signs-transgender-student-bill-202457750.html

    but of course that would never happen where i live.

    • Word Warrior says:

      Lisa,

      Ick. Yes, I keep thinking, “surely NOW they will see”, but they don’t. Disheartening to say the least.

      • Jennifer says:

        Oh, some do. One moron governor can’t force this; Colorado was the first recently to try the idea of simply allowing boys and girls to use each others’ bathrooms if they “felt like it”. But girls immediately protested and I believe the nonsense was stopped.

  68. I appreciate your stance on this, Kelly. For some reason, I stir up a hornets nest sometimes too and wonder why I am the only one taking a stance on certain issues:) I keep wondering as well what it will take for those to see what is really going on in public schools. The statistics of public school children who grow up and walk away from their faith is alarming, but that is not enough? Yes, some will persevere, but not many. Are parents willing to take that risk with their own children for the sake of hoping they will be the ‘light’ in school? Sounds like a lot of pressure on impressionable kids to me.

  69. joyrosy says:

    I’m from Australia and I really don’t understand your cultural context so I’m asking for some clarification regarding private Christian schooling in the USA. Back in the late 1980s I remember going to a seminar put on by very concerned ministers and teachers about public education and the opportunity that churches had to build low-cost Community Christian Schools. I sent my eldest son to one of these schools and it was low-cost because one church in the area supported the concept fully and had support from parents of other churches who sent their children there. I know for a fact that each church that sacrificed in this way was not the loser in any way. It was supported from the pulpit and by the richest members of the school home churches who provided scholarships and actively raised funds to make it a success. In Australia there has been government assistance for these schools I will admit, but even without it, the commitment to low-cost Christian school education from the ministers and the pastors and the lay leadership of their churches was what made the difference. Why should teachers like you and me choose to home school their children, when they can get involved with a project of low-cost Christian schooling for their local communities? For my son I believe that the low-cost community Christian schooling was a MUCH better option than me homeschooling him, as he had wonderful Christian teachers and the opportunity for Christian service in a school setting.

  70. Jennifer says:

    Would you web blog trolls PLEASE put a sock in it!

  71. […] The Martyr Parents  – These parents start out with good intentions, but after a few years choose to send their children into the public school to be missionaries. […]

  72. Dean says:

    So if I am understanding this correctly all of you here are in favor of establishing Christianity as official religion in public schools!?

    Have you lost your collective minds!?

    Not only that this would be unconstitutional and illegal but it would be highly unethical as public schools are financed by tax payer’s money and at this point more than one third of tax payers in United States are not Christian. As a group who claims to be very moral and highly ethical, how could you possibly even for a minute think that it is okay to force Christianity on millions of tax payers and their children who are financing public schools just like you do and therefore have every right to expect public schools to be religion neutral and respect the separation of church and state which was established in the very first amendment to our great constitution?

    • Dean,

      It’s interesting that you have such condescension for our apparent inability to think, yet you can’t read a post and comments and with any understanding. No, we are not for establishing Christianity in public schools. I’m not for public schools at all. You might want to reread.

  73. Dean says:

    Wow, reading all this is like opening a door to a parallel universe…

    We speak the same language but the void between critical thinking and the scientific worldview I espouse and this mass delusion of “Him” and “His word” you all seem to be enraptured with is so vast that we might as well be from different planets…

    • In a sense, you are right. It is a parallel universe. We are “in the world but not of the world” as believers of Jesus Christ. And until God opens the eyes, there is no way to comprehend truth or embrace His love. I do pray that for you, though. I have seen miracles and I’ve seen agnostics/atheists come to know Him.

    • You use critical thinking and science, both created by God, to navigate through life. Yet you give credit to man and make him your god. You do worship. You do have a religion. Someone is your god. Why is that so vastly different and odd? The blaring difference is that your god is fallible and mine is not.

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