On Christians, Elections & Voting
“In-san-i-ty: When you support a Republican who has done what you fear Obama might do.”
I pray for our nation, and more especially for those who bear the name of Christ, to think deeply, pray intensely and study rigorously to know how to respond to the dilemma we face.
And as I think about this election, I think about the righteous of God that have gone before us. Abraham, who obeyed God, even in the face of his worse fear, and even when the results seemed hopeless.
Noah, who followed God’s Word, in the face of rebuke with no foresight of anything He had promised.
Daniel, who refused to compromise, refused to bow to man’s law when it contradicted God’s law, giving no merit to the possible results of his obedience. (Do you know how easy it would have been for Daniel to bend this “little rule”, or to retreat in secret, giving that his life was at stake?)
I found the following articles to be of great help as we wade through the noise of this election:
Why I Cannot Vote for Mitt Romney
Charles Spurgeon on Elections & Voting
“But the critics are tough. They would press, “I am confident one guy is less evil than the other, and thus some good may come in making this compromise, even if it is simply stopping the other guy!” After all, we’ve gotta have people on the front lines, in the trenches, right?”
Spurgeon: This is one of the most specious of those arguments by which good men are held in the bonds of evil. As an argument, it is rotten to the core. We have no right to do wrong, from any motive whatever. To do evil that good may come is no doctrine of Christ, but of the devil. Fallen nature may maunder in that way, but the grace of God delivers us from such wicked sophistry. Whatever good Moses might have thought that he could do in a false position, he had faith enough to see that he was not to look to usefulness, but to righteousness. Whatever the results may be, we must leave them with God, and do the right at all cost.”
October 24, 2012 7:08 am 
Thanks, Kelly. Those were very helpful. (That first one is LOOOONG!) This helps me think about not only the presidential election, but also election for senator where I have to choose between a liberal democrat and a woman who created the professional wrestling industry. What a choice.
kelly,
i appreciate your position, but i seriously cannot imagine casting a vote for Obama – which is essetially what you are doing by not voting for Romney.
imo – this is an excellent rebuttal to the “lesser of 2 evils” argument.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5v7QQ5vQWg
also, the guys over at pyromaniacs wrote a series of articles on the whole romney/obabma kerfuffle. it is a good read and adds some balance to the argument.
http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2012/10/i-cant-vote-for-mitt-romney-1-of-6.html
and finally, this is a well written article by the the providence foundation on how a christian should cast their vote, including biblical qualifications for civil leaders –
http://providencefoundation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/PP-Sept-2012-election-final.pdf
i am not so naive to think that 4 more years of Obama won’t strip away all of our freedoms (including homeschooling). if God’s will for us is persecution and tyranny, then He will be with us in that fire. but i will not deliberately light the match to that fire.
in Christ alone,
lisa ente
Lisa,
If a vote against Romney is a vote FOR Obama, then a vote against Obama is a vote FOR Romney.;-)
I believe that we are accountable to a sovereign Lord, to obey the principles He has given us for all of life and that ONLY when Christians begin living by those principles will the judgement of God be removed from our nation and freedom returned. We cannot continue down the same path, operating pragmatically, and expect anything to change.
From an article I just included in the post by R.C. Sproul:
“Expediency is an obscene word. It is the word that is ever and always at war with principle. A person who is a Christian is called of God to live by biblical principles. The principles that the Bible reveals to guide our steps are the necessary elements for authentic righteousness. Take away principle, and righteousness is slain in the streets. We need an awakening in the culture and in the church to principle — to working according to truth and to living according to biblical revelation. Without principle, the church as well as the culture will decay, and the church will become a mere echo of the unprincipled pragmatism of secularism.”
Hi Lisa,
I read/listened to the links you provided, out of curiosity, and find them flawed in their premises. I can’t detail everything I found wrong with the line of thinking the authors/speaker displayed, but I feel it necessary to challenge at least some of it here.
From the Providence Foundation link:
The author states “The fear of God is an essential qualification for a Godly official.” He also quotes from the Bible and says this: “When the righteous rule, the people rejoice. The righteous are those in right standing with God — they fear God, the true and living God.”
Then he goes on to say, “Neither candidate [Obama or Romney] acts like a regenerated believer who meets the qualification of fearing God as the Bible presents.”
So what does the author do? He uses the article to compare only Obama and Romney because, as he said earlier in the article, “there is no chance that any other candidate can win.”
So the essential qualification of which he spoke, the fear of God, the true and living God, gets thrown out the window and replaced with a qualifier that only candidates who can win should be considered and compared. Why would an author bother discussing Biblical qualifications if they’re going to be discarded right from the get-go for extra-Biblical, humanly-reasoned considerations (the so-called ability to win)?
Another thing the author mentions is how Democrats and Republicans have contributed to the mess this country is in, and I agree. He says, “In general those who have led the nation in recent generations, both Democrats and Republicans, have been going the wrong way on the track headed toward the cliff. Some have slowed the train but what is needed is to turn the train around.”
Oddly, he also says this about Romney: “His policies are a step in the right direction compared to where we have been going, but in reality only slows the train down. It is still going in the wrong direction.”
Romney’s taking “a step in the right direction” AND “going in the wrong direction” at the same time?!
One other quote that’s important to note. This same author, toward the end of his article, wrote, “There are those currently serving in government who want to do this [turn the train around], and have tried, but we need more servant leaders who adhere to the biblical qualifications of Godly officials before this is possible.”
Maybe we’re not finding those leaders because we’re not looking in the right places. If they’re somewhere other than in the Democrat or Republican parties, they get shoved out of the picture because they “can’t win”.
How do people think we got to where we are now, with the two major parties being, to quote an acquaintance, “Democrat” and “Democrat-lite”?
A vote for Obamney is a vote to keep that train headed toward the cliff. And whenever we get there, it’s not going to be pretty for the people who have to clean up after the wreck.
We pay a deep price for short-sightedness.
I’m from England, and, as with every presidential election, it is always portrayed as as two horse race. The other candidates never get a mention until the actual day of the election.
What about the Constitution Party? Has no one heard of them?
Why vote for evil? The lesser of two evils is still evil.
Only God knows what America and the world is headed for.
May He help us.
Thank you for your stand for Jesus. I praise the Lord for your courage to stand for Him. I will be in prayer for you and your family as you continue to put Jesus first in all things.
Here is a round-up of articles by a man I respect very much on why we must vote for Romney.
http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2012/10/23/why-we-should-vote-for-romney/
Mrs. L,
His credibility with me is lost right out of the gate by this:
“We have only two options here: Mitt Romney or Barack Obama. Any vote for a third party or an independent is simply a wasted vote, a pipe dream, and an act of irresponsibility.”
That is the what the entire issues is contingent upon. The man is wrong. Those are NOT the only options. And that changes everything. If there *are* other options (and there are, though they may not evoke “immediate results” for our want-it-now-appetites), we are bound, as Christians, to follow principles of our faith, not “bow to tyranny”. When Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were given their ultimatum, there didn’t seem to be any other options either. The outcome looked very grim. Ah, but we serve a mighty God capable of enormous work when His people follow after righteousness.
Also, his stance that “Romney will not be dealing with doctrines but public policy.” and so we shouldn’t care that he is a Mormon seems ignorantly trivialized. Public policy is directed precisely by doctrine and theology-and everyone has one–and it should concern us greatly that we comfortable standing behind a man who serves a false God.
As the article I linked to said:
“Getting the ‘lesser of two evils’ elected at the federal level is a short sighted and pragmatic goal, as if voting for any form of evil is acceptable at election time. Our goal as Christians should be to disciple the next generation on what godly civil government looks like. If that means not voting at the federal level for several elections, then so be it. We don’t have to achieve ‘victory’ in our lifetime; we are called to be faithful.”
Kelly, I’m pretty sure they are the only options. One or the other will win, and we’ll have a part in that.
This is true only because of our cowardice. It is *possible* to elect someone else, if there were enough people willing to step off the hamster wheel. We are not obligated, by God’s law, to vote for the one of the two most popular candidates. We’re obligated, by God’s law, to uphold standards of truth and eschew evil–all of it. Romney compromises in a hundred ways.
A few facts of his stance on abortion:
http://prolifeprofiles.com/mitt-romney-abortion
Not to mention his big-government agenda that is not a lot different from Obama’s (legalized theft…a breaking of one of the ten commandments).
Great…we really are screwed. I don’t believe Romney is nearly as liberal as Clinton, though; I mean please. Until he lies under oath, is repeatedly accused of rape, insults his adulteress lover, makes FBI people disappear, shames his wife by an affair, and indulges in sex while discussing foreign policies, I’ll never buy that. That site was very discouraging, but his manner suggests he’s been torn on the subject of abortion, so he can be swayed. More and more are against it. I wish to God we’d elected someone better.
Jennifer, I don’t think you could have looked at that site very carefully if you posted a comment to Kelly 12 minutes after she posted the link. I’d urge you to take a closer look.
Actually, I’m a very fast reader, and saw more than enough to be discouraged.
Ha, Kelly, great minds think alike–I found that prolife profiles link earlier today and was planning to post it after I finished reading it, but you beat me to it!
Mrs. L,
Have you seen this?
Why I Cannot Vote for Mitt Romney
Another comment that discredits the argument in the link:
“a win for Romney will at least act as a halt to America’s decline, and perhaps a start of her renewal.”
We are way past a “start of her renewal” with our lack of principled fortitude. A friend of mine well said, “The point being the “hold ground to fight another day mentality” will no longer work. It’s too far to the Left for that now. We must vote Biblically, with no compromise.”
Thanks for this post and the links, Kelly. I have a few links to add for people’s consideration before I come back to discuss this topic.
An important read for all Christians who will be voting:
http://www.visionarywomanhood.com/happened-god/
Link to the website for the Constitution Party, which Dora mentioned above:
http://www.constitutionparty.com/
A website by a former Mormon who was a freshman at Brigham Young University when Mitt Romney was a senior there:
http://www.latayne.com
From the last link: “I was at BYU as a faithful Mormon while Mitt was there. I know what he was taught. I know what he knows and can’t talk about.” And this: “Most Mormons and certainly almost all non-Mormons are completely ignorant of the detailed ways that the Church has sought to bring about control of the United States government in the past. There is good reason to suppose that these goals (and if not goals, at least “prophetic” expectations) are still in place to achieve a Mormon theocratic government of the United States of America.”
The quoted portion above can be found by clicking on “Mitt’s Mormonism” at the Latayne link. Much more, and many links, can be found at her site.
I wish I had time to send you a copy of the sermon our pastor gave on voting for righteousness.I know Romney is a Mormon.I wasn’t going to vote for him.
I prayed hard! At the age of 52..by election time..and I have NEVER not voted or considered not voting until now. I finally realized..
We have to get OBAMA out of there! Not that Romney is going to solve things..but he does take stands for righteousness that Obama does not take..Abortion..Marraige..
I have prayed hard and I’m voting for Romney!! I will trust the Lord with the rest!
Thank you for these links. I’ve had some concerns about Romney, some red flags. These articles have really helped me!
For the first time ever I am truly disappointed by one of your post. I am totally in shock. Obviously you do not know of the evil this administration has planned for our beloved country. God says it is our duty to vote in elections. We will always have to pick between the lesser of two evils because of the sin nature of man. At least Romney isn’t in bed with the Muslim Brotherhood who wants nothing more than to blow Israel off the planet. May God have mercy on us.
Donna,
First, I’m wondering if you’ve even read any of these articles or considered the biblically sound arguments for our responsibilities in elections.
Secondly, God does NOT say we must vote. It is our privilege and we have the opportunity to choose a candidate that upholds the principles Scripture outlines for us, but we also have the “protest” of not voting, and by doing so, demanding someone different. Also, “not voting” is only one of our options; there are several others.
Frankly, I’m in shock at how many Christians are willing to compromise in this issue. We aren’t called to rate evil.We’re called to abhor it, flee from it and certainly not vote for it. Either a candidate represents truth, honesty and virtue or he doesn’t. God is bigger than an election, and I cannot believe for a *minute* that He will honor our fearful choice over our obedience and faithfulness.
Please read the articles and prayerfully consider…Romney is not going to improve anything, I promise you.
“God is bigger than an election”
That is so true. And I agree Romney or any president cannot change must really. Issues like gay marriage, abortion, healthcare, etc.. are bigger than the president. They are cultural issues. If you outlaw gay marriage, but the majority of people are for it, then it is just going to be overturned.
Many people have been quick to dismiss the Mormon aspect of Romney. The same people that last year called it a cult are fine with it today. (Billy Graham)
There are two excellent articles on this website: http://rickwitmer.com/. They are under the title, “Let the Word Be Thy Voter’s Guide,” Parts 1 and 2… with part 2 being especially exceptional. I personally do not see Romney as the lesser of two evils… I believe he is a good choice. Is he perfect? No. However, two of the primary issues he does stand firm on are the sanctity of marriage and the protection of the unborn. Though he doesn’t know the Lord, these things he stands for are good and true and he would be upholding God’s law as revealed in Scripture. We are called to be salt and light, and so I believe that we do have a very important reason to vote. One of the functions of the church is to help preserve the society in which we live from moral decay, therefore voting for someone who is pro-choice and/or pro-gay marriage means that we are not doing our job. The same holds true if we have a chance to vote for someone who would try and preserve biblical morality, Christian or not, and we refrain. Anyway, I hope you enjoy those articles! They are by far the best I’ve read this election season. I found them to be especially poignant and biblically sound. Apart from Scripture, he quotes Albert Mohler, Voddie Baucham, RC Sproul and others… very solid!!
I too, am in shock to read this post. This election holds the fate of our country in it’s hands. For those of us who wish to remain free… free to speak our minds, free to educate, free to make and have work… we will be voting for Romney. Not voting is casting circumstance to the wind.
Kelly, I continue to think about your post and wonder… Is there a candidate that you could support? Curious if you there is a politician that you feel would uphold your principles.
Janalin,
Have you read any of the articles I posted, particularly the first one? In order to have a coherent discussion about the topic, you have to understand my reasons. It’s not as simple as “throwing things to the wind”. The election process is an interesting one. When we are consistently given candidates for whom we cannot support, based on the principles we believe in, if enough people refuse to compromise (Romney is at least better than Obama) things will change, in a big way. It WILL take time, but as one of the articles pointed out, we’re in this for the long haul. We’ve got to quit being so short-sighted, terrified of THIS election, and do the only thing that will effect REAL change in our government. If we keep doing what we’re doing, NOTHING will improve. READ the articles, they make tons of sense, and then I’ll be happy to answer more questions.
Yes, Kelly I did read them. And although I somewhat understand your reservations (I am no Romney fan) I cannot agree with you. I will not under any circumstance let my vote be uncounted as to rid the current office’s Marxist agenda.
Janlin,
There’s on small problem with your logic….Obama is a Marxist, but Romney is a socialist….one step away from marixm. It’s just a slower death. Romney in office WILL NOT stop this slide of our country. I wish it would. If it would, I’d vote for him. Maybe. I still *we must all still* contend with standing before the Lord in conscience, as we vote for a man who does not uphold the counsel of Scripture. You don’t like Obama because he is pro-choice. Romney has openly admitted his support of abortion and Planned Parenthood. And you think he’s a better choice? Because his policies are slightly less extreme?
If you were interviewing babysitters and two applied and one said, “I will molest all your children” and the other said, “I will only molest one of them, but the rest will be safe and sound”. Would you take your “only option”? Or would you do something drastic to try to keep both of them away from your children?
I don’t mean to use a graphic illustration, but the reality is more graphic. In the OT, God judged harshly the nations of kings who were allowing child sacrifice. It did not matter how many, by the way, just that they allow them at all.
Do we really think God will let us off the hook for voting for a “less murderous” leader? Bearing in mind, that abortion is just one of the issues here. I will not, under any circumstance, let my vote be counted for a socialist who does not uphold the tenets of truth that made our land great. I fear God more than Obama.
Kelly,
Thank you for your truth!! I have been looking and waiting for someone to speak the truth about this election. I have seen so many Christians that are voting for Romney and I am left thinking: do they not know he worships false gods? Somehow believers are picking the points they think Romney represents. Last time I checked supporting homosexuality is not a bigger sin than worshipping false gods or vice versa they are both sins and we as Christians are called to think and live biblically! Again thank you Kelly for your truth!!
I will never buy the “you cant vote for the lesser of two evils” deal about Romney & Obama because you “can” as a Christian, “have the choice to write someone else in..” well, unless your writing in Jesus Christ himself, you !ARE! still voting for the lesser of evils.. Nonsensical!
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I have so much enjoyed the inspirational message of so many Traditional Christian woman. We have so many things in common: protection of the family, Godly roles for men and women, the focus on our children as our most important job, and our love for the Savior Jesus Christ, yes the one of the Holy Bible. I suppose I am naive to believe that somehow we could be on the same team when it comes to rebuilding the moral fiber of our country. I wonder if you know any people who are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? It seems that all you have heard of our Church is from people who definitely have an agenda against us. We somehow remain, in the minds of many, a very strange group who could possibly be very evil and deceived. Yet, if you knew any of us, you might see differently. We mostly are just people who live a regular life…providing for our families, educating our children, supporting community…and we do this all in the framework of seeking Christ’s spirit and his grace to help us and bless us in our lives. Most of us read the Bible and the Book of Mormon daily, we pray on our knees to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ alone and with our families, we take the Holy Sacrament in remembrance of Jesus’s sacrifice for us every Sunday during our services and promise to always remember Him, and keep His commandments. While we are just busy living lives directed by His Spirit, seeing small miracles come to pass from the result of prayer and fasting, and feeling happiness and joy as we live by the precepts of His commandments: Love God, and Love One Another, we are often confused at how angry and judgemental, our (what we would call) Christian brothers and sisters are to us.
I won’t pretend that I don’t understand what our differences are, but I think if you looked without all the baggage of preconceived prejudice, you may see that we have no evil conspiracies to perpetrate upon this country, and as Tim LaHage has stated, we may just be good partners in strengthening our country’s respect for God and his commandments.
I don’t completely agree with Mitt Romney as a candidate. Some of his ideas are different than my ideas concerning what we be best for our country, but as to what some of these articles claim about him being controlled by the church, and the church having hidden agendas, and him belonging to an evil cult, it is all a bunch of twisted lies.
Stephanie,
I appreciate your heart here. Let me say a few things regarding the Mormon religion: I highly respect their shared concern of family values. They are the only other group I know that share my heart about the values and importance of family. (Can I add, we *love* the Piano Guys and the magazine that I recommend here–”Seeing the Everyday” is founded by Mormons…these are different matters than voting one in positions of leadership though, for those wondering.) My brother almost married a member of the LDS church, a woman with whom I am still friends. We love her, but are unable to reconcile that we serve the same God.
I am no stranger to your church and know what it teaches. We don’t believe it is an “evil cult” in the sense of meaning harm, just that it IS a cult, by our definitions of Christianity, not holding to the basic tenets of the Christian faith. I’ve been called a member of a cult many times, so I know how that feels. I suppose we’re all members of one cult or another, depending on one’s definition.
My opposition to Romney is not just his faith. That’s part of it, but certainly not the only thing. Many of our founding fathers didn’t proclaim Christianity, but DID acknowledge the same God and Lord Jesus, upheld the principles of Scripture (good for governing all people, regardless of faith) and regarded His sovereignty over all things. My primary requirement for a suitable candidate would be that he applied principles of truth and virtue and also had a proper understanding of the role of government and freedom.
Thank you for your comment.
Thank you for your kind response. Here, we love Vision Forum, and the Botkin Family, and Generation Ceder. So it is really hurtful when blatantly false attacks on our faith are widely promoted. Again, I know we believe differently on doctrinal issues, but the twisted lies espoused by the “anti-” group are below us all.
Stephanie,
I most certainly know how hurtful false accusations can be, being the target myself, many times. Do you mind sharing with me what you feel, from my post, might be false, and let me consider removing it?
It seems that although I might disagree, the first few articles are less about false attacks and more about the philosophy of voting from a biblical perspective, but the article by the “Bishop’s daughter” is so blatantly misleading and false, that I wonder who is paying her or what vendetta she has.
Stephanie, there are ugly sects everywhere. The Botkins have called the father prophet, priest and king; Mormons have believed that the husband calls his family into heaven. Both beliefs are born from extremes not stated in the Bible, and therefore ripe for abuse; considering this and the real cases of abuse I’ve seen of both systems, I have little protective sympathy for them.
Why vote? Are you under some or other obligation to vote? Aren’t you giving legitimation to something unlegitimate (in God’s eyes)? Just wondering…
(I’m non-American.)
One more! Sorry.
Randy Alcorn also wrote an excellent 5 part series… part 5 speaks directly to the contents of this post. http://www.epm.org/blog/2012/Oct/25/election-2012-part-5
Thank you for these articles. I want to beg the evangelical community to consider the Religious Freedom argument, and the Pro-life Argument to do the Least Evil. We are all fallen humans, and live in a fallen world, the Least Evil is what we can do until Christ comes to reign as King. You can honestly say that Mitt Romney sees the nature of God and Jesus Christ differently than you do, you can honestly say that he believes in a church that you have great doubts about…but you can’t say that he does not profess Christ, and you can’t make the ludicrous jump that he is a Baal worshipper (really?) To be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is to confess Christ as your Savior every week. It is to strive to live a moral life based on the commandments of Jesus Christ, it is to value freedom to allow all men to worship as they see fit. There is a lot of Grace available through Jesus. Don’t you think that he can forgive any denomination who because of our fallen nature’s doesn’t get all the details right…whether that ends up being The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or any other Christian denomination…if you love God with everything, and love your neighbor as yourself, and look to Christ to be your Savior, do you not think that He will be so happy to fill you in on the truth and claim you as His own?
(Note: this will flunk the editing check. sorry.)
Stephanie, for pete’s sake; I plan to vote for Romney, but your defense of his system as being like any other system is silly. The man believes that long ago, some quack found golden tablets that somehow contradicted several vital things written in the Bible..and yet this man was a man of God, who heard from an angel that the Bible just didn’t get it right. Millions of dopes have followed the fool ever since. That’s their “Christian” religion.
I get it. But I am also a member. I understand how the story can seem fantastic, and that’s OK. But I have lived my life by its precepts, and I have a living relationship with Jesus Christ, I have happiness and contentment in its offerings, and I have found miracles and testimony through its teachings. I love that belief that God talks to and is literally involved with men today.
No, it’s not fantastic, Stephanie; fantastic things happen in the Bible all the time. But what you propose is that somehow God allowed a book written by Him to be flawed in some ways, and revealed this big holy whoops to ONE man. A man who proposed, instead, very unGodly precepts, including an unholy system of union between men and women whose heartbreaks I’m still reading right now.
“for Pete’s sake”, “silly”, “quack”, “dopes”‘, “fool” …can we not respond to each other in a respectful, adult-like manner? *sigh*
“Silly” is a not swear word, Becca, and every other word I used was to describe very wicked, unGodly proceedings, not Stephanie herself. I’m sorry you think a system that wrecked thousands of lives before it was a century old isn’t deserving of such words.
Your opinion could have been stated in a more loving manner, in fact most of what you say here could use more than a touch of love before the words are submitted to smatter the screen here. It’s clear you enjoy arguing, as anyone can see by reading comments on many posts here, but it would do you a great deal of good to think before you let your fingers fly around on the keyboard.
Hi there, I’m the Jennifer who posted the original comment with the link to Randy Alcorn’s blog. I’m not sure who the other Jennifer (blue snowflake) is… but as we have the same name, I wanted to make sure that you know you are speaking to someone else.
Just to clarify!
Thank you, Jennifer…I was about to read that link.
Dr. Del Tackett, who I believe is Presbyterian, wrote a blog post a while back during the primary elections that reminded us that we are voting for the best person to run our country, we are not voting for the best Christian. Just like if you needed a major surgery, you would go and find the best doctor and not necessarily the best Christian. I see where you are coming from, being cautious for voting for Romney. But we also have to be cautious about voting for someone just because they are a Christian, but may not be qualified to run our country.
Tiffany,
You’re right; neither I nor the articles insinuate that “being a Christian” is the only criteria for President. Obama is a “Christian” by his own admission. The word itself has no meaning. The principles by which a man operates are far more an indication. There seems to be a lot of confusion about this. I would sooner vote for a man who did not claim to be a Christian but acknowledged God’s law as right and good and appropriate for governing our nation (as was the case with many of our founding fathers) than a professed Christian whose principles betrayed his profession.
Kelly,
Thank you for your response. I believe that the articles insinuate that being a “good Christian” is the first criteria for becoming President. This is where I might disagree. I believe it should be someone that has the ability to run a country. Because we are in fact all evil and even if we did have a “good” Christian candidate we are still voting for evil. I believe your statement here “I would sooner vote for a man who did not claim to be a Christian but acknowledged God’s law as right and good and appropriate for governing our nation (as was the case with many of our founding fathers) than a professed Christian whose principles betrayed his profession” just like the case with Romney vs Obama? He does acknowledge God’s law as right and good and appropriate for governing our nation. Thanks again for taking the time to post and read our comments, it is very helpful!
We are all originally evil, but our depravity has a rememdy–GRACE. And a man who has been offered the gift of grace and been given supernatural righteousness. He is never perfect, but he can be righteous and govern a people by that righteousness. A cursory study of the OT and the way God blesses or cursed a nation depending on the ruler is a huge eye-opener. We seem to have forgotten that God is our King, and we are accountable to elect men as rulers who govern with that belief. That means their policies line up directly with what God has laid forth as “good and right” for a people. Neither candidate currently qualifies. Romney has not revealed in many of his policies, that he acknowledge God’s principles for rule.
So, we can vote in fear of “the other, worse guy”, or we can fear God and vote in a way that clear our conscience and lets us stand with clean hands before Him. If the ungodly rules, he rules. But let it not be said that we asked for him.
It has been my understanding that Obama is NOT a Christian but an Islamist.. as shown by his actions all his life.
He can cast his lies about all he wants. Islam teaches the killing of Christians is right.. so should we allow a evil person such as Obama to be president when he has an agenda against us and our beliefs? Romney may be confused or misled but he does hold the values that we hold dear. He is not trying to turn us into Mormons. It would be the same as any denomination being chosen. All denominations have differences in belief and doctrine but hold dear God’s word.
Obama is intending to turn us all into little government controlled robots with big government controling our choices. Christians are being persecuted more and more.. do we really want to sit back and allow someone in office that could take away our right to free religion? Obama=control of all aspects of life. Have you ever read about the Wild Hogs of the Okefenokee (it’s easy to Google it)? That is what Obama is attempting to do to us. He is the man with the corn.
If we do not vote, I don’t think it will further our cause. Less voters does not change things. The numbers will still be added and the people who did vote will get thier way. If all Christians refuse to vote, then we will continue to have people with evil intentions in the White House. It will leave only non-christians to vote and they will rule.
That Obama claims to be a Christian is nothing. He ebbs and flows with what he thinks will help him be more popular. Examples are his new stance on gay marriage and his new stance on immigration… changed just in time for the election to get more votes. We are just numbers to Obama. A Christian would not support gay marriage or abortion under any circumstances, Obama does. As far as the comment shown on the news lately from the man who spoke out against abortion in the case of rape, I have to agree with him. I don’t believe the Lord would condone the aborting of a soul because of rape. The child does not take on the evil of the person who raped. Is it right to kill a child….no. Obama is in favor of many changes that are against our principles while Romney at least wants to bring good principles back to our country. If we continue to vote for and demand the best principles then progress will continue to move towards that goal. It’s the back and forth of having a democrat and then a republican then the other and so on that makes us never able to gain ground. We must continue to vote at large for our principles or move aside and let people like Obama take over. We must continue to push for this. Christianity is under attack in this country.. true Christians are labeled homophobes and the like. We must chose the best path. We must not be afraid to stand up for better principles. Christians are hiding, afraid to say they do not support abortion because..gasp…we will be stomping on the toes of those who think women’s rights trump a babies rights. We must vote for our principles and stand up for what we believe, even if it means losing friends or upsetting people. We will never find a person who is perfect to run this country.
Britney is right, I don’t think Romney’s personal beliefs will for a second be imposed on us. But how can I stand before God and say that I helped allow a baby-killer, a Marxist, an economy-wrecker, a terrorist assauger, to put a noose on our country? I respect and understand everyone who doesn’t want to vote for Romney, but I can’t imagine people allowing Obama in for a second time feeling happy and satisfied. Last time, this child-killing supporter and anti-American got in because some people refused to vote for a man with a female VP candidate. That was the big reason for some of them, and I was stunned by the smug self-satisfaction they portrayed; I hope they still feel righteously happy with their choice.
“Righteously happy” is not the sentiment that comes to mind for those choosing to make a decision that they feel allows them to stand before God in obedience.
One HUGE missing element in this thing is God’s sovereignty. It’s true, we have a choice.Several actually.Just because people are too afraid of the 2-party system to vote for anyone else does not let us off the hook before God. We DO have choices; we will answer to whether we implemented those or not.
God, in the end, causes nations to rise and fall. He honors a people for obedience, or He brings their own judgement upon them (of which we are already experiencing). As long as we shove God out of this whole equation, we’re bound to the “their are only two options” logic.
As I mentioned regarding saints of the past, often they only seemed to have one logical option and STILL chose obedience, knowing that God would either work through the tragic consequences or perform a miracle. Why do we no long have that kind of faith?
Righteously self-satisfied is the attitude I saw portrayed by some who refused to truly stop Obama due to weakly supported beliefs. God has plans, but He’s allowed people to make their own choices and follow the consequences since time began. He knows what will happen on each and every road, and I believe He wants us to vote against the man proven corrupt and dangerous.
Kelly, once again you write something that is so right on and I praise the Lord that you have the courage to write it! I too came to this opinion a few years back. This world is so temporal, but eternity is not. I will stand before God someday and give an account of all decisions I’ve ever made. I try to picture it this way: I do not want to vote for anyone who Christ Himself would not support if He were standing here in the flesh. That does not mean I have to find a perfect person because that’s impossible, but a true Christian who belongs to God’s family and supports God’s Word is what I would look for. I do believe that if Jesus walked this earth today He would support a redeemed child of God with His vote. If there wasn’t a candidate like that, then I don’t believe that Jesus would exercise His privilege of voting because He would not promote someone who was not His. We must vote (or not vote) on principle. If every true Christian in our country did this faithfully for years to come, then maybe we would start to see real change in our country. As you said, we are to live by righteousness, not compromise with the world. It is years of this kind of compromising that has gotten our society where it is now. Evil hasn’t gotten more evil; righteousness has slacked off because people are afraid to trust the Lord. God IS bigger than an election and eternity is much longer than what we live in now. I want to always come out on the side of righteousness and trust that our sovereign Lord has all things in His control. Please don’t be discouraged, but keep on fighting the good fight and speaking the truth, Kelly. I used to fight this idea too until God opened my heart to it. You never know, it may be your writings that make a diffence in one person’s heart that then influences and makes a difference in more people’s hearts and so on. It’s that kind of courage and influence that changes generations to come, and that’s the whole point. Love you!
Thank you, Summer…this was very encouraging.
Good heavens, that poor Mormon woman; I had no idea such perversions still existed in the present Mormon church. But my impression is that they’re very rare; I’ve been reading at length lately about the early polygamous Mormons and the present polygamous ones (and quite frankly am shocked that some people, Christians and otherwise, are still miffed at the government for “victimizing” those small children of polygamy by snatching them away from the poisonous compound). However, I’m aware of the cockamamie ideas of what modern Mormons believe will happen to them after death. And frankly, I don’t care what Mitt Romney thinks will happen to him; he could plan on decorating his imaginary planet with papier-mache, for all I care. I care about his current politics, and am far more afraid that Obama will do permanent and lethal damage to this country.
Her marriage story is very misleading…it doesn’t happen as the story leads you to believe.
I take it then that you’re a Mormon, Stephanie. What makes you think she didn’t come from a particularly nasty sect?
You should read the comments in full before you respond. She already stated that she was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints.
Ok, so I have a couple more comments. If you read this article based on math stats, by not voting or by voting for a write in candidate, you are essentially giving a vote to Obama. http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2012/08/math-and-elections.html
I would have a really hard time doing that.
Secondly, I totally understand that we need to make a stand in order to see change happening. But, I just don’t think our country will ever nominate someone to run that upholds all of our principles of Christianity. I live in Missouri where there is a battle for a Senate seat between Todd Akin (R) and McCaskill (D). I believe Akin made national news for his comments about abortion and how he feels it is wrong in all circumstances…and the country attacked him (including his own party)! They think he is a crazy right-winged conservative Christian for believing the way he does. Yes, I do know that the way he said it came across very badly and I disagree with how he said it, but deep down people were just upset with his beliefs.
Keri,
Somehow your comments went to the spam folder and got emptied. I am so sorry…I tried to retrieve them because I was about to write a reply, and I couldn’t find them. Did you happen to copy it?
No.but I can repost later..I thought maybe you blocked me..lol.
Now when have you known me to block a respectful dissenter?
Okay..The respectful dissenter is back..lol.
After reading all articles I have come to the conclusion that don’t we just make this so much more complicated then it really is.
While I think it’s great that we can read other articles and get different viewpoints..and respectfully disagree,I would like to add that those articles were just way overboard! Okay,what do I mean?
Well,for starters..they were all written by different men who are in the Reformed Presbyterian Church.Not that I want to bash anyone’s denomination here..not my intent.When do we get to the point where we just listen to the two men that are running? What do they stand for?Evil or Righteousness?
Whatever happened to pulling out our Bibles..Praying our Hearts out for Wisdom..and crying out to the Lord to show us what to do?I have heard all the supposed arguments for standing for biblical principles..I loved the quote from Spurgeon that was in one article.
“Let us whenever we shall have the opportunity of using the right of voting,use it as in the sight of Almighty God,knowing that for everything we shall be brought into account, and for that amongst the rest, seeing that we are entrusted with it”.
So..let’s compare the two..One for much evil..One for much righteousness..not perfect..But he stands for much righteousness and yes I know he’s a mormon.
Let’s face it..We all probably shop at Walmart..right? They sell alcohol and tobacco and magazines we would probably all consider Porn..right? So..are we compromising our Biblical Principles by shopping there? What about where we get gas?They all sell alcohol and tobacco..
Now,I do understand that we are talking about who will be our President here.Our Pastor gave one of the best sermons I have ever heard on politics.He shared what each man stood for..Think about it..we all know.Then when he was finished he prayed for both men and their families! He did not endorse either of them but really made us all think!!
Keri,
“When do we get to the point where we just listen to the two men that are running? What do they stand for?Evil or Righteousness?”
I think this may be one of the big obstacles in this debate. I think (is it the media’s fault?) that most Christians are unaware of what policies Romney stands for. Obama is for killing lots of babies, Romney some. Obama has an openly Marxist agenda, Romney’s is socialist, one step away from Marxist in the way government operates. Legalized theft, he doesn’t show any intention of stopping it. And there’s more, these are the highlighted points.
Refer to the scenario in the comment I left to Janlin…I can hardly say that Romney “stands for righteousness” but does not worship the same God we do AND plans to support legalized murder and theft. The last time I checked, those were pretty big deals.
And I would add that the Walmart metaphor doesn’t remotely compare with asking a leader to rule over you.
Keri,
I also think it’s interesting that you mentioned Reformed Pres–of which I am one…I actually had the thought today that it seemed a lot of the controversy comes down to one’s worldview. Because we hold a strong view of the sovereignty of God and because we don’t believe that Jesus is coming back tomorrow (not trying to be snarky, just that we think there is more work to do), we tend to think and act more “generationally-minded” instead of being obsessed with instant results. We have a strong sense of our responsibility before God and recognize Him as King over all. Interestingly, we are VERY concerned with political reform, but we have different ideas of how to do that and it involves doing principle over pragmatism. Just something I noticed….
Kelly, anyway to enable that side panel showing who posted most recently and where? It’s very useful; thanks.
Thank you so much for opening up this topic. My husband and I have been in prayer over this and welcome Christian counsel. Please know I ask this question with a sincere heart. It is something that continues to come up as my husband and I pray and discuss. What about the judges that a president nominates/appoints for a life-time term? What are the differences in Obama and Romney’s picks? It’s these decisions that last a very long time. If anyone has some thoughts or articles about this issue, I would be most appreciative.
Oh my goodness! I read these posts and I am quaking in my boots. You say Kelly that “Being Christian is not the only criteria for being president.” Last time I checked the constitution stated that there should be NO religious test for public office. I am Jewish. I guess that
dooms any member of my family or my children for running for office.
That is just wrong. It is what is in a person’s heart,and what his values, abilities, and beliefs are that matter! This is America not Iran.
If you really believe in a theocracy, you are in the wrong country.
I am sorry but as harsh as it sounds, I believe what you are saying is racist, pure and simple!
Jane
Jane,
A clear understanding of our history and the foundations of our government would likely cause you to be embarrassed about your hostility to me. In fact, if my comments make you shake in your boots, perhaps you should NOT study the ideologies of our founding fathers, many, not all, of whom were Christians.
From the New Jersey Constitution of 1776:
”All persons professing a belief in the faith of any Protestant sect, and who shall demean themselves peaceably under the government, should be capable of being members of either branch of the Legislature, and should fully and freely enjoy every privilege and immunity enjoyed by other, their fellow citizens” Also guaranteed to citizens the “inestimable privilege of worshiping Almighty God in a manner agreeable to the dictates of his conscience.” (It was understood who Almighty God was).
We were a set-apart nation. A nation established by men who CLEARLY believed that the only way to thrive was to build upon principles of the Christian faith. This was not a “forcing of religion” on anyone, but a clear understanding that the tenets of Scripture were true, right and just, and that any nation who cared to follow such tenets would surely be blessed. And we were, for a long time.
So it’s silly to call me a racist or any other such insult, when I am literally echoing what ALL of our forefathers believed. I actually said I would more likely vote for a man who didn’t necessarily claim Christianity but acknowledged God’s wisdom as best for mankind (such as some of our forefathers were known to believe).
There can be no malice in wishing that our nation returned to one blessed by God, where all have freedom, and where government is returned to its proper, limited role. That is my heart’s desire and you have a problem with that?
In case you haven’t read the (long) article on Spurgeon by Joel McDurmon…excellent thoughts…
“But the critics are tough. They would press, “I am confident one guy is less evil than the other, and thus some good may come in making this compromise, even if it is simply stopping the other guy!” After all, we’ve gotta have people on the front lines, in the trenches, right?”
Spurgeon: This is one of the most specious of those arguments by which good men are held in the bonds of evil. As an argument, it is rotten to the core. We have no right to do wrong, from any motive whatever. To do evil that good may come is no doctrine of Christ, but of the devil. Fallen nature may maunder in that way, but the grace of God delivers us from such wicked sophistry. Whatever good Moses might have thought that he could do in a false position, he had faith enough to see that he was not to look to usefulness, but to righteousness. Whatever the results may be, we must leave them with God, and do the right at all cost.”